Feeling Overwhelmed When Trying To Compose For Small Orchestra

Does anybody else share this feeling when it comes to orchestration?

The thing is, I can easily create an orchestral piece in my head, mix a lot of the colors and create some good textures. The real problem comes when i am actually trying to create a piece for orchestra (a small one i might add): The ammount of staves to compose on, which instrument combinations work, which don't, how do i distribute chords between the instruments, the octaves, the doubles. All of that feels very overwhelming all of the time.

If you don't feel the same, how should we overcome that? Is it the lack of experience?

I have yet to delve the into the rich waters of composing for orchestra, but I agree, it looks overwhelming to me too.  I'm working up to it gradually, and I think when I get there, I'll compose it like a piano part on two staves, so I can see everything easily at a glance, and put lots of notes to myself:  "here the flutes enter on the top line," etc.  And once I've got it sketched out that way, I'll go about actually writing it with each part on it's own staff and fleshing out the details.  I think that will be easier to keep organized at first.  (:  And listen to some of the composers who are known for their orchestration?  

You should really look into reading an orchestration text (there are a lot of free ones available online). I agree with Pater, in that you should listen to composers known for their orchestrating skills (Rimsky-Korsakov and Ravel come to mind). In addition, just listen to a lot of different music and try to follow the music with the score...this REALLY helps. 

Remember, imslp.org is your friend.

Weird - it works backwards for me: the larger the orchestra is, the less overwhelmed I feel.

I love Howard Shore for his orchestration (grand stuff!), he really knows how to use an orchestra. I've yet to actually write something that's specifically going to be played, but looking at all the staves for an orchestra can be quite daunting. However, that's where the fun happens! What goes there, what can happen here, oh maybe I'll add this in...

 

Does anybody else share this feeling when it comes to orchestration?

The thing is, I can easily create an orchestral piece in my head, mix a lot of the colors and create some good textures. The real problem comes when i am actually trying to create a piece for orchestra (a small one i might add): The ammount of staves to compose on, which instrument combinations work, which don't, how do i distribute chords between the instruments, the octaves, the doubles. All of that feels very overwhelming all of the time.

If you don't feel the same, how should we overcome that? Is it the lack of experience?

 

If you don't have the ability to wield the ensemble you shouldn't be writing for it except as an exercise. You need to know each instrument intimately, and you need the ability to wield multiple voices and textures.

If you feel overwhelmed, reduce the instrumentation. Any worthwhile teacher will have you writing for very small groups at first.

 

 

I'll compose it like a piano part on two staves, so I can see everything easily at a glance, and put lots of notes to myself:  "here the flutes enter on the top line," etc.  And once I've got it sketched out that way, I'll go about actually writing it with each part on it's own staff and fleshing out the details.

You actually gave me a pretty good idea on how to sketch orchestral pieces. Musescore allows its users to change the colors of any desired notes, cleffs, and many other elements. I could type in the motif and the basic rhythms and work out the details while assigning different colors to the notes. Tones of red = woodwinds, Tones of blue = Strings, Tones of Orange = brass and so on.

 

 

You should really look into reading an orchestration text (there are a lot of free ones available online). I agree with Pater, in that you should listen to composers known for their orchestrating skills (Rimsky-Korsakov and Ravel come to mind). In addition, just listen to a lot of different music and try to follow the music with the score...this REALLY helps. 

I could try that. The only thing that will really make score-reading complicated, is that i will have to print the scores. Trying to follow the music in a computer is really inconvenient, specially considering the part that i get lost when scrolling the pages. Not THAT big of a deal though. Mahler is pretty good too.

 

If you don't have the ability to wield the ensemble you shouldn't be writing for it except as an exercise. You need to know each instrument intimately, and you need the ability to wield multiple voices and textures.

 

If you feel overwhelmed, reduce the instrumentation. Any worthwhile teacher will have you writing for very small groups at first.

It actually is an excercise for me, very very challenging though. The largest ensemble i was able to compose so far was for a string quartet.

Try writing for piano and piece by piece orchestrate what you come up with.

I love Howard Shore for his orchestration (grand stuff!), he really knows how to use an orchestra. I've yet to actually write something that's specifically going to be played, but looking at all the staves for an orchestra can be quite daunting. However, that's where the fun happens! What goes there, what can happen here, oh maybe I'll add this in...

His music is good, but his orchestration technique is pretty tame for my tastes. But I do like the fact that he usually orchestrates his own music (unlike most other film composers). 

John Williams also kicks donkey when it comes to contemporany composers.

(lol the filters in this forum are funny as hell)