Holy smokes batman..this composer needs help.

One piece: Concerto No. 2 in G Minor, RV 315 "Summer": I. Allegro non molto by Vivaldi ( from the The Four Seasons)

Vivaldi was one of the first composers to use progamatic intentions in the music (after Biber of course). So it probably doesn't have a set form, but rather conforms to the intended drama. And after listening to it, it sure seems like that.

Hey Justin, yes he is did use programming with this piece but it's not like it would be with a poem or anything of that nature just a few descriptive words (almost to the effect of a tempo marking..almost).

I know that their IS a form I just can't pinpoint what it is. Spring (the first movement) is a ritornello and that movement employs programming too.

Hey Justin, yes he is did use programming with this piece but it's not like it would be with a poem or anything of that nature just a few descriptive words (almost to the effect of a tempo marking..almost).

I know that their IS a form I just can't pinpoint what it is. Spring (the first movement) is a ritornello and that movement employs programming too.

The Four Seasons is from a poem...

This is indeed a rather confusing movement.

I think it's rather audible that there are ritornellos in there, but the weird thing is that the piece actually has two different ritornellos, one of which only gets introduced in the middle, which also ends the piece. This is of course not common at all, but has (as mentioned) to do with the programmatic nature of the piece.

Also consider that the forms of the solo concerto were never extremely strict and that the ritornello form wasn't very old yet at this point, and still involed many experiments.

Our concept of "form" is descriptive, not prescriptive. The general conventions tended toward for the organization of music during the baroque/classic era does not mean that Vivaldi or any other composer therein was thinking "A section......transition....K, now I need a B section, I think I'll take the repeat, and now I'll go ahead and start the development. How do I do this again? Oh that's right, first I need to become less tonally stable.." etc.

This is indeed a rather confusing movement.

I think it's rather audible that there are ritornellos in there, but the weird thing is that the piece actually has two different ritornellos, one of which only gets introduced in the middle, which also ends the piece. This is of course not common at all, but has (as mentioned) to do with the programmatic nature of the piece.

Also consider that the forms of the solo concerto were never extremely strict and that the ritornello form wasn't very old yet at this point, and still involed many experiments.

That was exactly along the lines of what I was thinking. It just helps to have someone else voice it sometimes.

I guess I was wrong on the poem part. What poem is it from (who wrote the poem), what makes it a program instead of just lyrics?