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Yeah i'm aware of that, I'm learning the basics of form and harmony, i will try to improve that on my next post. Thank you very much for the feedback 😄 -Aaron

That's much better in my opinion, and such a simple tweak. Tempo is a funny thing. It can completely change the mood of a piece. Sometimes there are pieces that are too slow, in which I feel should be sped up. In other instances, such as this one, it just had to be slowed down, and it makes all the difference since it accents the style!

I like the clarity of the melodic line as well as the rhythmic variety in the figures. Also the general structure. I find it a bit unusual that the second part starts with the I chord in first inversion. A piece in this style seems to call for the harmonic shift here to the dominant or some other nearby key.

here you go

An interesting piece. I don't master the violin at all but it is true that there are some scary chords here. The interplay between the two instruments is nice. There are a few moments when the piano plays chords in the lower part of its range that are very poorly defined because the notes are too close together, and in that deep layer it doesn't work well.

You flatter me, @PCC. I've only been taking my piano lessons 'seriously' for two years! I'll admit, however, that I really haven't mastered writing for the violin at all. Indeed, this is the first composition I've ever written for a duet involving the violin and piano, and I am almost certain that there are probably too many little mistakes in my writing to count off here one by one. I asked one of my friends who plays classical violin for advice on this piece; she still hasn't responded yet, so I can't make the changes to the violin part as readily as I'd like to. As I previously mentioned, alas is the plight of the pianist-composer who doesn't know how to write for other instruments 😭 I've seen chords used a lot in violin concerti pieces (Vieuxtemps v.c. 5 and Saint-Saens' Introduction and Rondo Cappricioso come to mind), so I thought using more would equate to a more vast textural soundscape, much like how an 'orchestral sound' could be 'achieved' by using big chords on the piano. I'll take your criticism into account; if possible, could you maybe give some specific pointers where I should/should not keep the chords on the violin? If that takes too long, then some general points work fine too. Also: are the thirds fine? I hope they are. Thank you so much 😄!

I am honoured to have been able to show you this possibility, @PCC. Considering this is my first atonal composition, I'd say it was a great success! While I do have a penchant for atonal music, I do understand that it often takes more than a developed musical palate to 'enjoy' the beauty of pieces by Penderecki and Ligeti, and so on. Back in the early days of my musical development, I couldn't stand even the mostly slightly dissonant Bartok sonatas; even now, I find it difficult to bear listening to music by people like Xenakis, Stockhausen, or and Ferneyhough. It's truly one of, if not the acquired taste of the modern music world. I think it's personally very reasonable to utterly deplore dissonant music; in fact, hating it might be more sane than actually enjoying it (lol). That being said, it's good to expand one's horizons a bit, and it seems I've been able to deliver upon you that notion at least a little bit. Thank you!

I hate purely atonal music resolutely simply because they never seems to embrace the basic principle of going between tension and resolution. YouTube recently recommended Ives' music but all i hear is scream scream scream (sorry if there are any fans out there). But I think you showed me it is possible to achieve the drama between tension and resolution with atonality (somewhat). I'm still nowhere nearly fully convinced, but great job!

There are a few harmonies I am not familiar with in the beginning after the intro that I personally find clashing, but maybe that's one me. Something tells me you master the Piano but not the violin family of instruments. The amount of details you put into the lines shows (notwithstanding the unplayability I mentioned). Would you consult a violinist for advice on how to write for the violin? And in my view, the violin family of instruments are primarily melodic instruments, meaning you want them to play a single line most of the time. Chords can be used with great effect but only when the time is right, especially since you have the Piano to back up (unlike solo pieces like Bach's). I just think the amount of chords you gave the violin really distracts from the impressive Piano parts. I think I would really enjoy the piece if I am being less distracted. Thanks for sharing your music!

Greatly appreciated, @Quinn! I never knew I could find someone who would also enjoy a composition of this nature! I'm quite glad you enjoyed my composition. To be honest, I never thought one could find such structure and thematic material in my piece. A lot of my earlier pieces were written spontaneously; now that you've pointed them out, though, even I'm beginning to second guess what goes on when I compose 😅 Hoping my next atonal piece will be even better 💪

This is a wonderful composition and I feel you've made the best of freedom that atonality allows. You seem to have hit what sounds right for the work and thus presumably for you too. I can't criticise the thematic material - obviously: there are motifs, bar 6 for example, that you use sequentially and I believe their evolution is one factor in why this work is easy to assimilate. You've also rather cleverly used silence a lot. You've allowed time for a listener to take in what's happening - the tempo. the pauses. Perhaps the slow tempo allows enough time for each event to be absorbed - with this style that seems important. I didn't question balance between 'randomness and perceived harmony' so perhaps my absence of comment tells you it worked for me. I did feel that balance in the use of your thematic material was dead on, though, the contrasts in register, tempo; the intrusion of sudden if brief outbursts worked well; above all between single notes and chordal moments, and dynamics. (I'll briefly mention that I too work without keys but it never worries me if I pass through tonal centres - or within the scheme (atonality) landing on a major or minor triad because that's how things want to be at that point. Also for me there's nothing random. Ideas may start randomly but they're usually edited to fit their context in the end.) So to sum up, a piece that's easy to assimilate and a pleasure to listen to. Refreshing. Congrats on the accomplishment. All the best with the next one!

I just applied this, and you're right, in B.13 and 14 i thought that when you are like copying an idea to the other hand you have to play the exact notes,i guess i'm wrong 😛 In B.24 i tried to follow the progression; i wasn't aware that u can substitute chords or interrumpt the progression -b.29-30 hehe i was trying to do that for the whole piece , it sounds funny to hear the high pitched theme on the bass -Aaron

Looking forward to it, @PCC!

I am not able to listen to it yet but the score looks impressive. Unfortunately I have an immediate basic critique, I played the cello and I believe some sections in the violin part is simply unplayable with the standard violin tuning. I will see if I have the chance to listen to it later today.

This is a retroactive post: I had sketches for this particular piece dating to mid-2022, and I decided to finish the rest of it by the end of 2022/beginning of 2023. I had just jumped into the world of free avant-garde atonalism (after listening to people like Takemitsu, Nono, Penderecki, Messiaen, Vivier, etc.) from the 60s and 70s, and I was captivated by the soundscapes they managed to paint using the unrestrained sounds they utilised, and the feelings they were somehow able to evoke despite writing music that was inherently musically 'wrong' to begin with. Admittedly, compared to those giants, my little prelude for solo piano does pale in comparison somewhat. I haven't given up on my post-tonality compositional dreams yet: I've had sketches for an Indonesian folk tale set in the style of an avant-garde late 60s atonal opera sitting around for a while now, but I haven't thought about working on those yet because it's hard to notate on software and I've only just gotten acquainted to a lot of extended techniques that one could use on various instruments. I don't know if there'll be very many people who'll enjoy this kind of music on this forum, but I still felt like sharing it anyway because I'm reasonably proud of this work. I find that it is difficult to achieve a balance between randomness and perceived 'harmony', often more so than writing conventional music. Whether you are pleased or repulsed by my work, I hope it's at least somewhat worthwhile and eye-opening (even if you'd rather keep them closed throughout!) 😉

Hi @44W74l4, I do find the harmony more reasonable here! I think you are having a clear Tonic-Predominant-Dominant-Tonic harmonic structure here. Personally I have the following thoughts: -What if change the quaver G note in b.10 to G-E semiquavers for smoother transition? -In b.14 I feel like it's I instead of IV there. Maybe you can in b.13 the left hand changes to E-F#, dotted crotchet-quaver, then change b.14 LH to G major (G-A-G-F#-E) -I feel like the iii chord in b.25 less smooth, and I may just change it to a I6 chord with note B less emphasized. -Nice little imitation in b.29-30! -Will change the G to A in LH b.42 better? Thanks for your update! Henry

You've definitely got the "palette" of that sort of style down, but I would say that the bassline could be more active and move more contrapuntally to the melody, and your string accompaniment is stepping on the melody a fair bit

I've just finished a new piece today! Here's a waltz that I had written for a competition (I didn't submit in the end, the entry fee was too costly), in Ab major. At first I had planned for it to have been for solo piano (inspired very much by Chopin's waltzes), but eventually I added a solo violin part for (at least some) more timbral variety. Would appreciate some good criticism: this the first waltz I've written, and also the first in my (obviously limited) oeuvre to 'explore' the circle of fifths. Hope you enjoy, and let me know what you think! 🙂

That would be epic cool heres the midi Waltz 10.mid

@Papageno Sure!

@HtWinsor, if you have the midi file of this composition, I will do my next nuancing video featuring this piece. Let me know.

Would you like me to take a look at your scores and point out anything that seems foreign to the style?

Hi this is my first post here but only in this account, I had another one that was called "Aaronbob", But i had some problems with the email so i created another account, everything should be fine now. This piece is a re-work of something that i uploaded a month ago, but this time i tried to apply your advice 🙂 it was going to be a rondo, but i decided to study the form well before attempting to compose with it. i hope you like the little tune, I accept feedback and everything, @Henry Ng Tsz Kiu helped me when i asked him for advice so the harmony should be better. ( it's still not "perfect" but maybe now it's decent) I hope you like my little piece and have a wonderful day ❤️ -Aaron

@Papageno Thank you for your advice! I'll definitely keep working on these things, especially the melodies and the ABA form you suggested. Thanks again

Me again. I didn't answer your second question. "How can I build up to more complex forms?" In the beginning, I would concentrate on ABA form. You could have 8 bars for the A section, 8/10/12 or 16 bars for the B section and then back to 8 bars of A. A=8 bars (modulating to dominant) B=8 to 16 bars (modulating to tonic) A=8 bars (staying in tonic, this will mean adapting your original A section to end on the tonic) Write in different keys each time and try out different time signatures. If you compose for the flute it sounds quite good on midi. Get good at composing short melodies. Don't be afraid to compose inferior music, you have to be comfortable being 'the fool' before you can be 'the master'. Thats a Jordan Peterson quote. I'm still a fool, I'm composing minuets, marches and other short forms, they are approaching 'good' in terms of quality but I have a long way to go before they sound anywhere near authentic and that's OK. To learn to juggle you begin with two soft unbreakable objects! Then you add a third, and a fourth etc. We would all love to be composing fugues like Bach or sonatas like Beethoven but we have to be realistic. They had the luxury of excellent instruction, hours upon hours of playing, and the need to make a living doing it. For most of us it's a hobby, we have limited time and limited instruction (textbooks can only take you so far). You can study juggling theory from a book but you have to keep dropping the ball in practice, over and over again. The typical place people begin is short form on piano. If you want to compose in the baroque style, Fux counterpoint study or any derivative of his work is a place to begin. From there you can add counterpoint to your melodies. Personally I think the classical style is easier to begin with because you can create melodies and add an alberti bass. That's just my opinion though and I'm sure others have theirs. Get good at melodies with an understanding of the implied harmony. If you play the organ you can add the chords under your melodies while you play them. Sometimes I hear piano music on hear and it's obvious the composer doesn't play and that they wrote for both hands simultaneously as they went. If you isolate the melody it's not so great and that would be obvious to them too if they heard it. First comes the melody, then the bass line, then the middle voices. If you're a genius maybe it all comes at once but to us mere mortals, it's like building a house. There's a process and isolating one aspect and to get good at it the way footballers practice penalties over and over is the best way forward. The impatient among us may disagree! It's fun to try complex forms but they'd get torn to shreds, or worse, ignored, by the fugue experts on here lol. I'm kidding, but it would be like drawing a stick man as an adult and putting it up on the fridge, people would be confused. In conclusion, study melody writing, there are a few rules that'll help you out to create catchy tunes. Put your melodies in ABA form. Play them at the organ with chords underneath. Study counterpoint along side this effort then you'll be able to add a second voice to create convincing baroque music in short forms. Darren