July 22, 200916 yr How fast can a reasonably competent organist move around the pedal board? I'm writing a passage in quavers at the speed of crotchet equals 140, and it's a little chromatic (using whole-tone and octotonic scales), and I wondered if this is practical to play. There are no leaps greater than an augmented fourth and most of the movement is stepwise. I know Bach wrote some pretty fast stuff for pedals in his solo organ works, and I've also seen comparable passages Barber's Toccata Festiva and the organ solo in Janacek's Glagolitic Mass played at something like this speed. Also, what is a sensible range for the pedal board? My local church organ (quite small, three manuals and only about 20 stops into total) goes from the C two octaves below middle C to the E above it. I'm keeping within these limits - is this OK for most organs?
July 22, 200916 yr Your Range is ok, .... The organ I play is up to F but Well, I think your description is not enough for me to create me a clear idea of what the organist will play with his feet .... But is not very difficult to imagine what can be playable and what can not. You know that professional organist uses both feet AND both "parts" of each foot, the tip and the back .... Written like the strings bowing, with ^ is the tip and the other sign is the back, ... i.e. A chromatic scale from F to B can be played with 1 foot very fast, but a diatonic, not so fast, .... Use your hand to simulate a foot in the piano keyboard.... Put you thumb behind you 2nd finger, making a single "piece" ... then press the C key with the thumb part and the C# with the finger, and repeat D, D# F, F# etc... and check if your pedal segment makes sense using 2 feet. I don't know if I made myself clear.... if not.....tell me, I'll try to explain myself better --------------- How do you see this organ eh ? hahaha :laugh: "at bar 28 remove you the Trumpet 8' ok ? ..... Jesus!!! wait wait wait ... where's the trumpet I can't find it" hahaha :laugh:
July 22, 200916 yr Can you give a piece of the score. I am a moderate organist. Pedals can be played by toes and by heel times 2 feet, equals 4 possibilities per note. A phrase like C Cis D Dis E could be played by one foot, legato, alternating heel and toes.
July 22, 200916 yr "toes and by heel" Those are the words I didn't know....Sorry, English is not my first language.
July 22, 200916 yr 5 thingies ..... hahaha :laugh: why don't you write on the score, "these notes are played with you'r left 5 thingies" .... and mark them ....:D
July 24, 200916 yr --------------- How do you see this organ eh ? hahaha :laugh: "at bar 28 remove you the Trumpet 8' ok ? ..... Jesus!!! wait wait wait ... where's the trumpet I can't find it" hahaha :laugh: sh******************************t! A moderately-sized instrument! I reckon from the Baroque era? :O :D
July 24, 200916 yr Author Experience tells me I should have posted the music first post around. Here's a screenshot of the passage - all that is played on the pedal board. If it's not practical it can be done with the left hand but I wanted the transition from feet to manuals to get a change of registration (although I've not added suggested registrations yet). Speed has been marked down a little too, to 130. I'm aware of the 'heel-toe technique' but don't know how organists play phrases moving in the same direction for several notes and how disjunct passages are played. (I've tried to mime it with my feet). That organ is immense! Seven manuals and at least 100 stops! Where is it, and is this the largest organ in the world?
July 24, 200916 yr That organ is immense! Seven manuals and at least 100 stops! Where is it, and is this the largest organ in the world? I don't know where is it, I just saw the pic and posted haha.... But the size doesn't make it the best ... For me, the 3 best Pipe organs in the world are in Paris, St. Sulpice (remains as it was in Widor years) Notre-Dame (has been enhanced with "modern" features and stops) St. Eustache (has been completely "Modernized" with all kind of features, almost an Spacial Ship) I've heard lively the Notre-Dame and St. Eustache, the St. Sulpice only in recording, .... those 3 are 5 manuals, and awesome powerful sound. -------------- Ok, I saw your score..... Well, it "looks like" it is not very much "pedalable" at that speed (pedalable exists ? :D ) I'll take a better look to see if I can post you how could be played that.
July 24, 200916 yr MMmm No, I think not, .... Do you have the chance to go to a chuch and try to play in the pedal to see what can be done and what not ? .... if you set the speed slower, may be easier .....but I don't know your piece...
July 24, 200916 yr MMmm No, I think not, .... Do you have the chance to go to a chuch and try to play in the pedal to see what can be done and what not ? .... if you set the speed slower, may be easier .....but I don't know your piece... I thought that the industry standard was markings at the top = right foot, and markings at the bottom = left foot?
July 24, 200916 yr Well I assume that method is when you have only black/white .... I didn't even think in that. I was trying to imagine how would I play that.
July 25, 200916 yr Ok - First the standardized notation is when ^ or U below note - left foot or heel, when these symbols above note right foot or heel. When these symbols are underline indicates one foot has to behind the other smoothly. I do not indicate it here The above example could be played (I am doing this at home away from the organ so it needs to be checked) ..^..^U..^..^U..U^..^..^..^..U^....^..^....^..^-^ (the^-^ means right toe slides to next note) ^..^....^..^....^....^..^..^..^....U^..^..^^..^.... Used .. for the space of one note. The tempo may make this difficult and you may lose some distinctness in your bassline anyway. I'd say 100 would be better 120 max. BUT 140 is not impossible - just very difficult as you have quite a bit of 2 plane pedaling - eg one foot going smoothly behind the other.
July 25, 200916 yr check out Ive's Variations on America and perhaps the coda in the first movement of Widor's 6th haha. Alot is possible..
July 25, 200916 yr I'd say 100 would be better 120 max. BUT 140 is not impossible Yes, at 100 is much better, but it's true, at 140 is not impossible, difficult to state when something's "impossible" Hey....are you sure the 3rd note (the Ab) is U ??? how do you play an Ab with the back of the foot ? maybe I didn't understand your signs..... (the dots maybe)
July 25, 200916 yr YouTube - El Capitan Wurlitzer This guy does some pretty decent pedaling, and this is a good example of intervalic jumps not being a problem for a professional organist. He's doing all sorts of arpeggios and whatnot.YouTube - Organ Pedals BWV 532 (fragment) This is one of bach's preludes for organ with a close up shot of just the pedaling. This is a good demonstration of speed.
July 28, 200916 yr No U on third note, but ^. And .. = one note. That is my own shorthand. U on 5th note as notated in original.
July 28, 200916 yr As for the pedaling example - it isn't the best only because Bach is usually played all toes - no heel. it is not a huge deal if you use toe and heel but some of the moves he does are making things far more complicated than need be. here is a good example of sound organ foot work YouTube - J.S. Bach - BWV0543 Prelude and Fuga in A Minor And to see some really fantastic footwork go to the 5 minute mark onward YouTube - Louis Vierne - Final from 6th Symphony
August 4, 200916 yr Author Thanks for the advice - I think I'm going to stick this in the left hand for safety and have the player open and close the swell box with a foot instead.
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