why do we associate certain ideas with music?

Why does a slow minor piece sound sad and a fast major piece happy?

Is it possible to write a dreary/haunting piece in a major key?

Basically,

Why do we associate certain emotions with different tonalities? Are there other cultures that would consider a brilliant major piece sad? Is it by nature that we associate emotional ideas with music or is it by our surroundings and how we were brought up?

I would love to hear your thoughts and opinions :toothygrin:

Isn't it partly due to the doctrine of Affection and its lasting effects on music and what we emotion we associate with it?

Because you're told to

Culture culture culture culture culture culture culture culture culture culture culture culture.

Timbre matters more psychoacoustically than pitch content.

Culture culture culture culture culture culture culture culture culture culture culture culture.

Timbre matters more psychoacoustically than pitch content.

THANK YOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUU

I suppose that certain combinations of frequencies estimulates the brain in some way and others in other way .... like in Colors, Scents etc...

Scriabin claimed to know that stuff and use it on his works .... .... ....

Culture culture culture culture culture culture culture culture culture culture culture culture.

Timbre matters more psychoacoustically than pitch content.

yeah.. this.

I think that this is also why some people appreciate more modern sounding music, and some people don't. The more you listen to modern music without automatically dismissing it, the more you can get out of it.... by the same token, pretty much everyone (around here) goes by the minor=sad major=happy (in movie and TV soundtracks, song lyrics and content, and with timbre as Ferk says.. how often do you hear noisy distorted rock in a major key?) that by the time someone is old enough to even be cognizant of such things, the notion is stuck with them.

I suppose that certain combinations of frequencies estimulates the brain in some way and others in other way .... like in Colors, Scents etc...

Scriabin claimed to know that stuff and use it on his works .... .... ....

Synesthesia :-)

One of the saddest songs I know, Naked as we came by Iron and Wine, is in a major key. I know the song is sad, and I feel the sorrow deeply and cry, and yet it makes me smile. Beck's Lost Cause, which is also in a major tonality, makes me cry and smile for other reasons; things deeply connected with my whole being, with all my thoughts. If you think that this is easily explainable, it might be.

But the explanation does not matter, at least not for me, in my appreciation of the songs; I react the way I do because of something I see, hear, in the song itself, and that I could try to hint at. In the case of Naked as we came, I'd say something too wordy, perhaps about the sad fate of every loving human, the strength of meeting death bravely, and I could go on indefinitely. But whoever listens to the song can meet me halfway. And, whatever made this discernment possible, bless it - be it nature, culture, or God.

I believe that a lot of these "associated ideas" are based on context. It is not really cut and dry.

1) Socialization

2) Language

Well, c and g sound assonant because the soundwaves fit into each other, one sound wave is quarter the length of the other and with major this is cut up precisely again, so it's more stable, as opposed to minor where the soundwaves do not really fit in each other, so not just pure culture perhaps....

But that's just an idea...

-Bob

Yes, many cultures use the fifth as a foundation -- ancient Greek, Indian, European, and Native American among them. However, how do you account for music like balinese gamelan, which does not base around the fifth?

There are extremely few concepts that are universal....

Also, how do you account for music that does not use anything close to resembling the tuning system used in Western society? Is this music suddenly rendered invalid because it "rejects" the constructed idea of soundwaves and the overtone series?

Also, how do you account for music that does not use anything close to resembling the tuning system used in Western society? Is this music suddenly rendered invalid because it "rejects" the constructed idea of soundwaves and the overtone series?

No, it is not invalid, I was just trying to think of a reason why in my ears a major chord sounds happy while a minor chord sounds sad, and I think that a culture that DID develop a system based on fifths(ambiguous term since there might be more tones to subdivide an octave) is fairly universal in this matter.

Not entirely obviously, but you could call it a biological or at least a logical reason that a major chord sounds happy because it's more "stable".

It probably has something to do with it.

I also think things like dissonance or harmony in general are relative to a certain piece, so I might have no problem finding happy atonal music happy.

But I can still shiver or feel melancholy when Bach drops dissonance in the midst of some nice chords, it's all about contrast.

The term dissonance may imply that it sounds odd or strange, which is not what I meant, I hope you get my point.

Anyway I do agree that there are very few concepts that are entirely universal.

And I can very much enjoy music that does not sound like anything that developed in europe.

-Bob