3 Elegies

Here is my new project. I have just finished part 2 of a series of 3 elegies for orchestra. The Orchestra is quite normal, I guess (3223, 4331, timp, strings)

Plan for the whole: 3 movements each with two themes, where the first is the most elegy-like. Sketches of part 1 and 3 are almost finished. I have to re-orchestrate these movements, because they are not so good yet...

This movement has a simple ABA' structure, were in the end motives from both themes are combined.

go and listen :)

3 Elegies for Orchestra

Mvmnt.2: very , despress feeling at the beginning , and i like it and the skill are quite flawness

good job

Mvmnt.2: Very nice piece. I definitely felt some hopelessness in the opening and anger in the middle movement, so if you were trying to portray that you got it across very well. The loud section felt like a dance of some mythic proportions which was very interesting.

The only things I'd change are that it seems the transitions are a bit abrupt (unless that's what you were going for) when you change tempo markings. Other than that I thought it was fantastic.

Mvmnt.2: While listening to the piece... I found it to be very creative and artistic. One thing I notice is that there isn't a lot of reverb in this mix (sound is rather dry). This may well be your intention, and it is more something I noticed as the song went along. In my opinion, it would make the piece sound much richer if you had reverb it.

If you are looking for some C.C., then you would possibly benefit by closing the gap between your high and low volumes as it is nearly inaudible in several spots. A listener might lose interest in hearing the whole piece because of this.

In all, it is a very nice melody and seems to have a good theme set for it. Keep up the good work!

Well done! Great work ^^ I only have a few things score wise.

1) - Subtitle, the actual word is there haha, maybe get rid of it of put a subtitle?

2) - I'm not sure if you need the text "Full Score" there.

3) - I would make those tempo marks much bigger, they're important so it might not be bad to make sure they're seen properly! haha!

4) - There are a few very, small points in the score where things clash with other systems, eg mes. 22 in the 1st Oboe. Maybe just get rid of them as..well...yea... ><

Great job! Keep it up! :)

Thanks all for listening and commenting.

Al little remark on the progression of the whole piece. Part one is almost finished. A MP3 preview can be found in the same folder (Op69 - 3 elegies - Folder Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage). The third movement has already some nice parts and i getting shape, although the orchestration has some issues.

When they are finishes I'll post a separate topic for discssion :)

tnx for now

@dankk: I dont like reverb. The sound gets too clumsy t my taste

@kevin: I had not yet the intention to deliver a clean score. that you found so less is a kind of compliment to me ;) btw, I moved the solo sign you refer to in the oboe part.

Wow Jaap, I really enjoyed this!

Here is what I thought:

-I think the slow section in the beginning would benefit in being even slower. The chords there are really pretty, and having it a little slower would savor that effect.

-I agree with Ghost in saying that some of the transitions seem a little abrupt.

-I wasn't a huge fan when a large group of players would play QUARTER rest QUARTER rest in unison. I felt like there was a little more you could have done, but I'm just being picky.

-I really liked the section at 39, to be specific.

-I like the clarinet line at 62...and I wish there was an extension of it somewhere else in the piece.

Overall, like I said, I really enjoyed this! Great work, and I can't wait to hear more!

-I wasn't a huge fan when a large group of players would play QUARTER rest QUARTER rest in unison. I felt like there was a little more you could have done, but I'm just being picky.

haha. I have had the idea to write this series of elegies in the model of coping with grief by Kubler Ross (Denial, Anger, Bargening, Depression, Acceptance)

But it would have been too artificial to put those title above the movements that were finished yet... But the mid section had some Anger in it (although the A theme was meant as the Depression-theme)

The quaters are like a beating (more of this in movement one, the timpani can go frenzy there :D )

-I really liked the section at 39, to be specific.

Me too, the way the lines move togethers, like a climax and a buildup in one...

-I like the clarinet line at 62...and I wish there was an extension of it somewhere else in the piece.

This comment I do not really understand. The clarinet is doubling the first violins to get a nice dark tone. These lines are build from the A-theme. The harmonic progression moving at a bit faster pace than the beginning:

ms 62a being like ms 5b

ms 62b being like ms 4a (other key)

ms 63 being like 62 (other keys again)

The bassoons are imitating the B theme, but that started in ms 59 already...

So this whole passage is already a bit of an extention both of the A and B theme. Maybe you like the little fact that the slow harmonic progression quickened, of the repeat of ms 63?

Thanks for the detailed review, I really appreciate this, and glad you liked it :)

By the clarinet line extension, I mean the color it gives to the sound. The clarinet paired with the violins gives it a depth and warmth that is exceptionally nice to me, and I would love more of it.

right. I get it. I'll think about it. The music can use it.

But I intentionaly wrote the opening without woods or brass. I tend to write for all at the same time. So I was trying to limit myself :)

Mvmt.1: I thought you had a lot of great ideas, but you had trouble putting them down. By that I mean I liked it, but it was way to choppy, and without flow.

thanks for listening.

I am curious if you can point out some places where it is too choppy.

I myself are not yet satisfied with the change to ms 81. And also at ms 153-6 I am not certain if I keep it that way. But other than that I thing there is an obvious flow and connection between the themes. So I'd like you to be more specific ;)

Alright :]

Firstly, I thought that you changed themes to quickly. I think you should've expanded on your flute bit at bar 19. Actually, going through the piece again, I think what I might've meant by choppy is that your melodies were to short at places.

Listening through, I found it was a great piece. There are a few stop and start anew's (like bar 117) but other then that its fine I guess. Sorry about that!

thanks for listening again :) Nice to hear you find it a great piece.

The idea was sort of to make the interludes longer each time. In ms 23 the theme repeats, but after the four halve notes there is a kind of interlude (winds) that grow longer each time. Are those the melodies that are too short? Then it was intended that way :)

You may have noticed the extended version of that melody is the base of the interludes of the "poco pui" part and the second phrase of the "Allegro" part.

Mvmt.1: I felt a conflict between Tonalilty and Atonality ... you're just in the line that separates the tonality from the atonality ... your piece is hanging on that line and sometimes seems to fall into one side and sometimes into the other ....

More precise I'd say that half of the orchestra is playing in a tonalilty and the other half is just free to follow whatever they want (woodwinds mostly) ....

I can say that what can help you to define that aspect is to have a more clear language, something you want to express, a story to tell.... without that, the posibilities of writing a piece like this one are abundant ...

(the player continued with the No.2 and ....)

There you fix that I just said ..... once into a more defined line to follow the development start to flow by itself...(I continue in the thread of the 2nd.....)

ok, like I was telling you in the thread of the 1st one.... the sounds are now into a groove of tonality, which in this case is the correct thing to do.

but now that you had found a line to follow, you stop. This No.2 is too short, I'd like to be the No.1 the short one and the No.2 the large one ...

anyway, I liked more this No.2 .... well done.. :thumbsup:

Hi SYS

thanks for listening. I am a bit surprised to read you call the winds atonal. I won't agree here :) I think there is a clear tonal center, although the wind are wandering away in a sequential way.

Do you think I lack a clear or personal language?

Thanks again, and I'm now going to read what you wrote on No 2 :)

haha, glad you liked it so much :)

I think the way you review my tonality is interesting. I have in my hometown some friends that only listen t baroque. The tend to like No 1 more than 2, because they understand the tonality of 1 better than that of 2. I think the opening strings are a bit too unfamiliar to them...

I dont think I'm going to expand this, and shorten the other. Certanly not swap them. Because the coming 3rth movement will be more similar to 1 that to 2. And I wanted to create a ABA' structure in my movements. (Well, all they'll have in common is a movement in halve notes, so its not really A')

Do you think I lack a clear or personal language?

Not as a deficiency in you (as a composer) but in the piece, "something to express" "a story to tell"

Some music doesn't need such a thing (Like Boulez, Penderecki...) is just music and is not about anything in particular, but in this case, I thing you need a "motivation" .... an "event" you want to "capture" in music, a "place" to take a picture of ....

Without that particular point to describe, ... the music becomes vague and lost...

besides, the 7/4 and those time signatures ... well I feel they become an obstacle to the creation of flowing music, As very personal suggestion I'd say that don't write in werid tempos until you feel your music is really in that tempo, that is in 7/4 and cannot be changed or simplified into a easier beat.

well that's what I think .... :toothygrin:

Not as a deficiency in you (as a composer) but in the piece, "something to express" "a story to tell"

Some music doesn't need such a thing (Like Boulez, Penderecki...) is just music and is not about anything in particular, but in this case, I thing you need a "motivation" .... an "event" you want to "capture" in music, a "place" to take a picture of ....

Without that particular point to describe, ... the music becomes vague and lost...

besides, the 7/4 and those time signatures ... well I feel they become an obstacle to the creation of flowing music, As very personal suggestion I'd say that don't write in werid tempos until you feel your music is really in that tempo, that is in 7/4 and cannot be changed or simplified into a easier beat.

well that's what I think .... :toothygrin:

I don't think my music, and in particular this piece is abstract enough to be compared to Boulez or Penderecki. Not even close. Not that there was a story, but one could easily be made up for this piece. With clear distinctive themes, with contrasting moods. So really dont get your point. :P

Does others share his view?

Those time signatures. I understand they can be difficult. But here they are quite understandable. In fact is it the standard 2/2 theme (two measures) and then some other beats to fill the rest for the wind-interlude thing. This expands, so does the time signature: 6/2; 7/2; 8/2. So, to quote your advice, I "felt" I needed these "weird tempos". :toothygrin:

Hi!

Mvmt.1: I did like some parts of this, but for the most parts i got frustrated by looking at a score with more rests then musicalnotes. I think you should rearrange the whole brass section, and mabye come up with some more ideas to use the instrumets. It looks like a large work, but it looks even larger then it is.

If I where you, I would make more use of the instruments and give them a more musical function, then just siting there and waiting to play two halfnotes E-F#.

SimenN

I wasn't trying to compare your piece with Boulez, just saying that some music doesn't need what I said,

In your piece, what is needed is just a little bit of more clearness in "what you're saying" ... like in the No.2

Written as listened:

no 1. - I love the opening. Very mysterious and reverential. I especially like the change to a more animated texture (hope thats right word). The extrapolation between the animation and the opening motif is very nice and I think ties the two together very well. From a complete sectional standpoint though, there does seem to be a choppiness in the overall mood that ruins the overall feel of the elegy (in my opinion).

no. 2: This one starts out similarly. The brass are very ominous and foreboding. This one just doesn't quite seem like a true Elegy. Mind you, everyone has a different expectation of a work based solely on the title. An Elegy to me is mournful, reminiscent, and melancholy - this one is all but those three things. To each there own though. I really like it musically though.

Written as listened:

no 1. - I love the opening. Very mysterious and reverential. I especially like the change to a more animated texture (hope thats right word). The extrapolation between the animation and the opening motif is very nice and I think ties the two together very well. From a complete sectional standpoint though, there does seem to be a choppiness in the overall mood that ruins the overall feel of the elegy (in my opinion).

Thanks for your reaction. I always was not satisfied yet with the unnatural breaks, and still don't know how to deal with them. I am currently working on that, and some minor changes. When thats finished I'll post an update

The word Elegy is maybe misleading. As I have said before its more of a description of the A-themes of the movements...

no. 2: This one starts out similarly. The brass are very ominous and foreboding. This one just doesn't quite seem like a true Elegy. Mind you, everyone has a different expectation of a work based solely on the title. An Elegy to me is mournful, reminiscent, and melancholy - this one is all but those three things. To each there own though. I really like it musically though.

I agree on what you would expect of an elegy. I think though that the words mournful and melancholy do apply on the A-theme. That this lament contains a part that is more angry than sad, well, IMHO its more convincing that a elegy that has a B-theme in Major ;)