Emotion present in the writing OF a composition?

Inspired by the most interesting post concerning whether music is pointless without emotion, I would pose the following question:

Were the most emotionally intense works of music always composed by people who, while writing them, were in a fit of emotion?

I ask because whether I am experiencing powerful emotions does not often seem to have much to do with music. Sometimes when I improvise, I experience intense emotion, and later listen to that recording and think "how boring." Often teh opposite occurs, I will record an improvisation with no sensation of emotion whatsoever, and then get goosebumps upon listening to it later.

Maybe Stravinsky was on to something when he said music has nothing to do with emotion?

Note to all those who may despise me at this point: You need not tread lightly here. I have no feelings of outrage towards any possible positions on this topic. :)

First of all, and this is addressing the Stravinsky quote as well as your opening quession: It takes a while to create a full piece of music. Usually, especially back in 'the day', where no notation programs were present, it would take longer. Emotions are hard to keep flowing constant for such extended periods of time!

That aside, no matter how stable in your thinking you think you are, you can't always tell exactly what emotions you're feeling. They're very deceptive. Also, listening to music affects you differently if you're in a different mood. Like if you listen to the same piece more than once, in different sittings, you're bound to experience different things.

You're not outraged? WHAT?!?! uh....uh....YOU'RE FAT!!! (how 'bout now? :))

I'd say no. Brahms is about as emotionally intense as any music gets, and he worked on his compositions as if it were a perfectly ordinary 9-to-5 day job.

HOW DARE Y- er uhh. ::brushes self off:: :)

Do I look fat in my avatar?!?!?

Anyway yes, I think that since writing music truly is a craft, it is something that takes

Ceaseless work, analysis, reflection, writing much, endless self-correction, that is my secret.

-- Johann Sebastian Bach

whether a composer has an emotional paroxysm whilst composing doesn't seem to have much to do with it.

Hey! I have about 25 pounds to lose...or maybe more...er...but I say what's wrong with being a few pounds overweight (aside from the obvious health detriments...er...)!? Is it MY fault that I sat behind a desk in a cubicle for too long to make a living before I finally came to my senses (well, yes, I suppose it is...but...still)? I'm DEEPLY offended! :)

* deep breath * That felt good! * goes and eats a mochi *

Now then, as you can see, I have my emotional outbursts in any of a number of ways, but rarely when I'm composing. Once in a while, I'll play back something I've written, and it will surprise me pleasantly - then my usual reaction is to laugh, but that's about as emotional as I get about my own music.

It's the music of other composers that gets me emotional. There are many times when I simply cannot listen to music because I get too emotionally involved. I've all but given up listening to great music in the car, for example - I can't be bursting into tears in traffic on US101. And it does happen - often. An exception is the lighter stuff they play on the public radio station - but even then, sometimes I'll hear something that hits me right where I live, or surprises me wonderfully, and I'll completely lose control of my emotions. I heard Hummel's E-flat Piano Trio on the radio in traffic, and I had to pull over during the last movement or I'd have wrecked the car.

I often find that if I have an outburst of emotion and decide to write a piece about it, if I don't finish it during that outburst, I can't bring myself to finish it at all because it will be "phony" in my mind. Sure, I've done retrospective writing on a series of emotions, like my first symphony, but I never seem to get the same satisfaction out of it. However, there are so many "preset" ways to capture a certain emotion, that I would have to answer your question by saying that no, I doubt everyone was in a fit of emotion throughout the composition of their pieces. Nickthoven was dead on: pieces could take years to complete, how could you maintain that same emotion for over a year, also considering that most composers wrote more than one piece at the same time. Does anyone have ADD, because I think if I don't break this post up soon, it is going to start looking a lot like *blah* *blah* *blah* *blah* *blah* *blah* music *blah* *blah* *blah* emotion *blah* *blah* *blah* *blah*. But I won't break it up, because I am a rebel. :)

Hey, look at this. I don't even need to post. Look:

Originally posted by J. Lee Graham@Aug 18 2005, 12:57 PM

Once in a while, I'll play back something I've written, and it will surprise me pleasantly - then my usual reaction is to laugh, but that's about as emotional as I get about my own music.

I often find that if I have an outburst of emotion and decide to write a piece about it, if I don't finish it during that outburst, I can't bring myself to finish it at all because it will be "phony" in my mind.

Marisa-- your method of posting astounds me. ;)

Yeah, this thread has kind of been made pointless, as everyone seems to agree on every aspect. And that's not fun!

I dunno, Nick. I'm still pickin' that bone where you called somebody FAT. There but for the grace of God go YOU, my friend! ;)

Originally posted by J. Lee Graham@Aug 18 2005, 10:21 PM

I dunno, Nick.

Occasionally, when I play something on the piano it'll inspire an emotion, or I'll actually play based on something I'm feeling, but the best that'll get me is a theme or an idea. And then once I have to turn it into an actual composition it becomes more intellectual than emotional. Oddly enough, when writing a song, I can do that based just on emotion. But that's probably because that's something you can do without having to write down stuff; you can just do it then and there. Once I get to trying to write an accompanyment, it becomes more about thinking than feeling, which is probably why I can't write an accompanyment to save my life. ;)

Interesting. Composition really is as much about thinking as feeling. Sounds like you've got the "feeling" part down - the inspiration. The rest will come with experience.

That reminds me of something I once heard about the way Haydn composed, which was more religious than emotional, but they are somewhat akin.

Haydn was, of course, an exceptionally well-trained composer, and he possessed a kind of humble confidence in his abilities. What he felt he needed more than anything was inspiration. He would pray on his knees every morning, still in his nightshirt, "Lord, please give me an idea. I can do anything I need to do, if you will just give me an idea."

Apparently, God heard his prayers and saw fit to bless him - and us.

Originally posted by J. Lee Graham@Aug 21 2005, 12:50 AM

Interesting.

Here's my basic thought process for a piece that I actually end up finishing:

Start of a Composition: Usually neutral - just playing around with the notes until something worthwhile comes up.

Middle of a "Good" Composition: Usually feeling very excitable and prolific - as for actual mood, it usually fluctuates between between joy and misery.

End of a Composition: Usually very miserable, since I can never seem to end a composition gracefully - or perhaps deep down I never really want it to end at all :P.

Post-Composition: Initially, very pleased and proud of the composition (if it's one in which a lot of effort was exacted upon) - slowly, though, as I listen to it more and more, I begin to pick out more and more "mistakes" and such, and the misery returns, especially if a lot of work was put into it.

After some downtime, though, I rebound back to my "normal" composition mood and have the (mis)pleasure of starting the whole process again :P.

I am a very emotional person, and easily moved, especially by music (my own and others'). :cool: Just the other day I was sitting listening to the climax of my newest orchestral work and crying. (Yes, I am that wierd!) I sometimes compose themes while feeling emotional, but develop them later.

But I am also critical of my ideas. In a way I relate to Dvorak who was said to use his compositions as winter fuel because he had so many he didn't like :lol:, except for me they usually don't get down on paper unless I really like them--I only have time to write what I am satisfied with, hehe. :P

HAHA! im emotonal too, except i never cry to music, even when it touches me very deep.

I always like to start with something really good, but if i do i screw up the ending. So lately i just start with random ideas, and leater emotions appear and it gets good, then very good, so my middle always gets developed very nice. if i leave it there (usualy between 1:30 and 3 minutes) i get it done good, and make an effective ending. However if i continue, i usualy make it miserable... however i like to make my songs as good as possible (like J dunlop and Dvorak) and i always throw out the bad parts, just as if i was processing a diamond. The only bad part is that when you throw out too much im usualy left with less then 4 minutes of music... so i never wrote a piece that lasted more then 5 minutes (movements and parts of course, not entire symphoines and sonatas etc.)

Hmm. Well, despite the romantic images, Mozart was in quite jolly humour while writing his Requiem, and Tchaikovsky exceptionally happy while writing his Pathétique (which means, this being Tchaikovksy) he was at what is generally considered a normal level of emotion).

As Leonard Bernstein once said, more or less, 'If I'm in the middle of an emotional tempest, feeling really down and gloomy and sad, the last thing I'm going to feel like doing is composing music. Later, when I've recovered, I can sit back and use the memory of that emotion to create emotional music -- but the emotion itself cannot be recaptured.'

'Emotion recollected in tranquillity', as Wordsworth put it.

On the other hand, as Nick Cave once said, 'I hope nobody's expecting an album of happy songs from me, because it's not going to happen. When I'm feeling overjoyed, I just want to enjoy it and go for a walk or something, not sit down and write about it.' Or words to that effect.

Just the other day I was sitting listening to the climax of my newest orchestral work and crying. (Yes, I am that wierd!)

That's not weird. :thumbsup:

Mozart was in quite jolly humour while writing his Requiem

Until he got sick, that is. I'd probably be in a jolly humour too if someone had given me a commission that lucrative.

Well, you don't seem too gloomy when you're ill. Just a tad grumpy.