So You Want to Teach Music in America?

No, I don't think that's the case at all. I'm not very good at it, but I find it very useful. It may be that your attitude toward ear-training is skewing your perspective on this... did a mean old theory teacher bludgeon you every time you sang the wrong pitch or something? I could see that influencing my opinion of ear training.

Sort of. I'm probably quite biased because I was never told what the hell is the point, and I found no use for it whatsoever yet I was graded and had to jump through the hoops anyway. I hate that sort of thing, I want to know WHY I'm doing things, not just do them out of obligation. Funny that this is the only part of all my studies that I feel that way, but maybe if had a better teacher, yet everyone just turns up the same excuses that don't sell me the thing at all.

I'm not sure that's really the case for everyone, though. I agree with you that there are constructive and destructive approaches to ear-training and, depending on the skill level of the students in your class, one approach may not be as appropriate as another. But that aside, every little bit helps. Do you have any evidence that ear-training is "detrimental" to musicianship? That would be worth discussing.

I don't think you can HURT someone's musicianship by getting them to do whatever ear training exercises. I think it's just a matter that I for one would like tangible proof that doing 3 voice dictation is worth my time and I haven't seen any, and all I hear is that it might help but it's always so vague and so far in my experience it hasn't. It's just made me angry.

I'm not -against- any sort of ear training, my problem is with a curriculum that requires you to pick out which note is missing from a 12 note cluster. Seriously. Or being able to transcribe four part chorals by ear? Who the in the name of Jesus H. Christ needs a skill like this? I certainly don't! It's like if I was required to, I don't know, become really skilled at snowboarding. What the gently caress is the point, again? Unless you like snowboard, yeah, but I don't see the connection and it's a really hard thing to train!

No offense, but this is absolutely cynical. You flat out say educators WILL BE BIASED, which in and of itself is a bias by the way. Furthermore, you cannot eliminate the possibilities of bias, only account for them. Just because a bias exists does not necessarily make the opinion of the individual invalid or less trustworthy. Just making sure this is pointed out...

Let's see... how to illustrate my point. Ah! English!

Let's ask English teachers about the importance of teaching spoken grammar. It's never used in the majority of conversations worldwide but... it's still taught and you won't find an english teacher who will say it's wrong to teach it... why? Well, it's very simple... they feel it's an important thing to teach. In university/college teaching, teachers usually have to get their lesson plans 'approved' by the department head and in some circumstances another body. It's not a simple: we teach this because it's important... it'd be nice if it were that black and white. I'm not being cynical at all - and mind you, i've said umpteen times this thread I think it should be taught. I'm just questioning the logic of asking educators who have to teach a curriculum that isn't set by their own individual view points. In regards to your last sentence: your right it doesn't make their opinion invalid or untrustworthy. I doubt you'd find any scholar or academic who would take a viewpoint that is slightly biased as holding as much weight as one that isn't biased. I haven't found one yet.

Well for my part I appreciate ben's inquiry. I respect Bernhard Lang. Check out his recordings on Kairos label. And I'd like to investigate the other composer.

But here is the rub - what is the best way to develop good ears? That would be tougher to get a consensus and that is what some of us are simply saying. And some of us are disagreeing with methods it is taught in the US. That is all. I think this question merits its own thread and references to good books.

I can say that my ear training teacher during my second year of college, David Cutler, really changed the way I looked at it. A very dynamic individual for sure. So I can understand your frustration SSC.

Yeah, SSC, it sounds like your ear-training was purposefully and unnecessarily made more difficult than mine. We took it slowly and gradually, starting with matching pitch and pitch memory, which is really where it all begins. Once I found a referential pitch, I could get really close in exams. I used C for a while (thought back to the theme in Jurassic Park by John Williams), but now I'm more comfortable with F and Bb. Once we got to the point where we could sing a pitch from memory before we heard it, that's when things started taking off. <br><br>Listening for missing notes in a 12-tone sonority... well I have yet to see a worthwhile aural skills curriculum use something that specific. I wonder what he wanted to accomplish with that. I wonder how many were successful in completing his course.