ORCHESTRATION FINAL HELP *URGENT*

Hi there ..... I just listened to the rehearsal. Unfortunately, part of the problem might be the skill level of the players ... in the rehearsal posted .... the are problems with rhythms and entrances etc .... What levels are the players: community orchestra, high school, college?

I understand this might also be the first rehearsal of the work.

Good luck with the progress of the work.

I myself had a community orchestra perform one of my works ... no comment!

Mark

4 minutes ago, MJFOBOE said:

Hi there ..... I just listened to the rehearsal. Unfortunately, part of the problem might be the skill level of the players ... in the rehearsal posted .... the are problems with rhythms and entrances etc .... What levels are the players: community orchestra, high school, college?

I understand this might also be the first rehearsal of the work.

Good luck with the progress of the work.

I myself had a community orchestra perform one of my works ... no comment!

Mark

They are college musicians (most are music majors), but some key players like the oboist and some of the strings are people taking the class as an elective.

And this was a sight-reading session our orchestration class does in collaboration with the orchestra. Our final project is to orchestrate a piano piece and then we do (2) reading sessions with the orchestra. One with the rough draft (what I've posted), and then the final session (this coming Wednesday), with our revisions.

Edited Saturday at 04:46 PM4 days by BlackkBeethoven

Here's what I'm thinking for this section -- to keep that fullness

Trumpets

Trombone & Tuba

Viola (was going to give it to cello, hence the bass clef)

Cello & D. Bass

Edited Sunday at 06:17 PM3 days by BlackkBeethoven

Attaching this section as well

8 hours ago, BlackkBeethoven said:

Attaching this section as well

Keep in mind the harmonic series. In both examples you put, even if you sustain the harmony, be careful of the interval spacing. Small intervals in the bass voices have the potential to sound really muddy as the sound waves will fight for dominance.

Same thing with the use of bass voices. Be careful of when Price writes them explicitly long in the score versus apart of a moving line. Depending on the pedal info, it may not be correct to include a prolonged voice.

This time, I am cautioning against too much use of the same techniques; however, at this point, you should strive for making a rough draft versus detailing it all out. Get your ideas in full-score format and then go back and polish everything you need to before Wednesday.

very true...ugh, I'll have to make more revisions lol

update.pdf

I was sitting down and playing through different sections of the original piano piece earlier, and I thought that using the bass instruments more rhythmically could be really fun...like doing "hits", with the French horn and trombone...just a thought

Like this 👇🏾 (first measure of 2/4)

Not a specific note for your piece, but when it comes to orchestrating piano pieces, the gold standard is Ravel. I would highly recommend studying his orchestration of Mussorgsky’s Picture At An Exhibition, along with his orchestration of his pieces like Ma Mere l’Oyle and Le Tombeau de Couperin. I would also give a listen to Brahams Haydn Variations, in both the double piano and orchestral versions.

One thing you’ll note about these works, is how they weren’t limited by the notes on the page. As an orchestrator you are not just transferring notes from one instrument to another. You are interpreting the music through your own sound.

19 minutes ago, BipolarComposer said:

Le Tombeau de Couperin

We studied this piece in Orchestration, it was wonderful. Our textbook had different voicings/arrangements of chords w/ audio recordings so it was really helpful.

21 minutes ago, BipolarComposer said:

You are interpreting the music through your own sound.

I love this description...it's really a combination of instrument capability & range knowledge, compositional/arranging chops, and creativity. Imagining what you want the final to sound like and using your tool kit to make it happen.

Honestly, feeling a lot better about this...It needs bowings, but I'm holding off until the last minute to do those b/c I don't play strings anymore lol

Main things I'm looking over now

• Fullness

• Logical use of instruments throughout

• Logical flow throughout the arrangement

• pages 14-17 are looking a little empty

I had an idea to give the horns some rhythmic "hits" in this section, but I wanted to get some feedback before taking that entire line out

Thank you all so much, I have learned a lot from your feedback

updated.pdf

Edited Tuesday at 03:19 AM2 days by BlackkBeethoven

12 hours ago, BlackkBeethoven said:

Honestly, feeling a lot better about this...It needs bowings, but I'm holding off until the last minute to do those b/c I don't play strings anymore lol

Main things I'm looking over now

• Fullness

• Logical use of instruments throughout

• Logical flow throughout the arrangement

• pages 14-17 are looking a little empty

I had an idea to give the horns some rhythmic "hits" in this section, but I wanted to get some feedback before taking that entire line out

Thank you all so much, I have learned a lot from your feedback

With your idea for brass stings on the offbeats, consider holding off until later to do it. We're hearing the melody clearly for the first time, and doing some non-written flourishes would be better for after a clear statement of the theme/ later overall in the work. Present the melody clearly and let it develop to that point for extra changes and hold your cards until then imo.

Edited Tuesday at 03:33 PM1 day by MK_Piano

10 hours ago, MK_Piano said:

Present the melody clearly and let it develop to that point for extra changes and hold your cards until then imo.

I agree...would m. 28 be a better spot?

updated.pdf

Any last minute feedback?

1 hour ago, BlackkBeethoven said:

Any last minute feedback?

Nah, you got that, good luck and have fun! Let us know how it goes lol

Just now, MK_Piano said:

Nah, you got that, good luck and have fun! Let us know how it goes lol

Thx bro - you were a HUGE help!! I learned so much.

The one thing I completely missed was bowing 🤦🏾‍♂️😭

10 minutes ago, BlackkBeethoven said:

The one thing I completely missed was bowing 🤦🏾‍♂️😭

You're welcome!

Lol, string players tend to break bowings often to do what's best - depending on the concertmaster too

11 minutes ago, MK_Piano said:

You're welcome!

Lol, string players tend to break bowings often to do what's best - depending on the concertmaster too

Yes, true...however part of the assignment was to thoroughly mark up the score (that means dynamics, articulations, BOWINGS, etc). We've studied each instrument family in depth to get a sense of the capability of each instrument (what is easy vs hard, how to write idiomatically, what's impossible, etc). We had a whole test on bowings lol

Well, whether or not you wrote specific bowings, you still wrote slur markings for the strings, which to them imply bowing information. Whether or not it's explicit, you can always justify your reasoning as the following;

"With the given technicality of the work already demanding high accuracy from the performer, I wanted to take today to test if my orchestration would make the bowing information clear and implicit. For today, I decided to give their bowing instructions based on the slur markings in their parts, and following this session, I will amend and update the bowing instructions on the final copy of the score before its first performance."

This essentially covers you in case they ask about it

Edited 23 hours ago23 hr by MK_Piano

7 hours ago, MK_Piano said:

Well, whether or not you wrote specific bowings, you still wrote slur markings for the strings, which to them imply bowing information. Whether or not it's explicit, you can always justify your reasoning as the following;

"With the given technicality of the work already demanding high accuracy from the performer, I wanted to take today to test if my orchestration would make the bowing information clear and implicit. For today, I decided to give their bowing instructions based on the slur markings in their parts, and following this session, I will amend and update the bowing instructions on the final copy of the score before its first performance."

This essentially covers you in case they ask about it

You sure you're not an English major too? 😂 I like how you spun that 😆

5 hours ago, BlackkBeethoven said:

You sure you're not an English major too? 😂 I like how you spun that 😆

Appreciate it! It is funny because imo, one does not have to be an English major to know how to write or dictate well lol

Knowledge can be a great strength when you know how to use it

A clip from the final reading session today