Piano Ballad

Hey there!

I am new to this forum and would like to present my piano ballad (version 86).

It was critized strongly in another forum, mainly because of the piano melody.

The piece isn't completed in full. From 1:53 on the dynamics of the topline strings

aren't edited yet. Because of the many critics I composed 3 new piano melodys (version 90,96,101).

What is your hearing impression? How do you find the 3 melodys?

Could you tell me, for example, what kind of criticisms you received?

Personally, I think it’s good overall!! If I had to point something out, I’d say the melodic phrasing feels a bit similar throughout, which makes the development feel a little thin. Among the new melodies, I really like measure 90. Personally, I thought it might be interesting to try swapping the left-hand accompaniment of 90 with something like what's in measure 96!

By the way, if you don't mind, could you tell me the name of that forum? I’d love to take a look myself.

1 hour ago, Nd-6829 said:

Could you tell me, for example, what kind of criticisms you received?

Personally, I think it’s good overall!! If I had to point something out, I’d say the melodic phrasing feels a bit similar throughout, which makes the development feel a little thin. Among the new melodies, I really like measure 90. Personally, I thought it might be interesting to try swapping the left-hand accompaniment of 90 with something like what's in measure 96!

By the way, if you don't mind, could you tell me the name of that forum? I’d love to take a look myself.

It's a German forum. They said things like:"There is no melody." "That's just tinkling." "I can't sing to this melody."

32 minutes ago, Sera Cinematic Music said:

It's a German forum. They said things like:"There is no melody." "That's just tinkling." "I can't sing to this melody."

Really? That sounds like a very harsh critique. To be truthful, I think your work is good; it simply reflects your good style. Your melodies have a certain melancholic quality, yet they still feel energetic and full of hope—Specifically, in version 80, the first 27 seconds have a bit of a lonely, melancholic atmosphere. But starting with the note at 0:28, it feels as if the music begins to take a step forward with a sense of hope. It’s hard to put into words, but that’s the impression I get. Whether that was intentional or not, your music is capable of telling a story, and I think that’s great. I’m also interested to hear how others feel about it, not just me.

Edited yesterday at 02:16 AM1 day by Nd-6829

Hi Sera, welcome to the forums!

Just as an advice, many of us like to read the sheet music in case there's any. Maybe it's not the case here? Did you use a DAW to make this directly in MIDI + VSTs?

10 hours ago, Sera Cinematic Music said:

"There is no melody." "That's just tinkling." "I can't sing to this melody."

Hmmm. Still in the first mp3 you attached. I guess I should read these criticisms more in depth in order to see how much I would agree or disagree with them. Often, the definitions of what X or Y are depend widely on the person using them. I would be inclined to think that when somebody told you that there's "no melody" they tried to convey something a bit deeper than "there's absence of a melodic line". Maybe they themselves don't even know how any better way to tell you their thoughts, but again I am not sure since I did not read these comments myself.

There's obviously a melody in the sense there's an horizontal line in the piano (and later, on the strings) that's intentionally put on top of the rest of the sound mix, and there is some motive repeating here and there but it is shadowed by the —I would say, evident— vertical design of the piece in one hand, and also by the repetitive nature of the piece itself, a repetition that does not rely on the melody but that is commanded by that vertical design.

The block-ish simple 4-chord progression/wheel harmony (Em G Bm D, with ocassional variations G-> Am, Bm-> Eb), to me and in this very case, competes against the melody here, and successfully (to some of your critics disgrace) robs a good chunk of its prominence. Adding variations and ostinatos on top of or next to said melodic line does not help. On top of that, the dynamics that are not built by layering instruments/voices are in my opinion either very subtle or inexistent.

All in all, I can get people saying: "there's no melody" as an oversimplification of "this piece lacks a strong melodic line leading it". In fact, the harmony itself leads (or restricts) the melody. As much as there's rhytmic movement in the upper voice in the piano, it always stays inside of each bar. The piece barely moves from that so what the brain ultimately gets is "| Things | Things | Things | Things |". The melody is not on top of that, but constrained to that rigid sub-structure. Your alternative three "melodies" suffer from that. You build vertically, vertical sub-structure commands over horizontal movements, and thus the melody you build doesn't escape and get the prominence it needs to be righteously called a "melody". This does not mean that any piece with these characteristics will have no distinguishable melody, but that this happens in this particular case.

Let's stop a bit at the "it's just tinkling", I would not say that but I kind of get where this may come from too. Keeping in mind what I discussed in last paragraph, if you combine "melodic line not leading", "ostinatos & small variations" and we consider that the piano resorts to it's high register in order to make that melodic line more prominent, we get something that we could indeed call "piano tinkle". I would say it can be cantabile, but it can also feel easily forgettable because it again gets diluted by the things I have been pointing out in this message.

But wait a minute: do you intend this piece to have a prominent melodic line to begin with? After 3-4 listenings, it strikes me as a piece with (strong?) influence of the style of L. Einaudi (and the likes) . I'm not a fan, but it's yet another way to build music and it doesn't neccesarily rely on a melodic line to move things forward. For certain purposes, you don't even want things to "move forward". You may want to create an "atmosphere", or simply something whose main source of movement &/or development is not concentrated in the melody. You do you.

Finally: it doesn't strike me as a Ballade but I'm not sure if there's a clear defintion of that so no big deal.
Did you yourself think: "I want to make a piece with a clear, distinguishable melody."? Just curious.

Best regards,
Daniel–Ø.

2 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

Hi Sera, welcome to the forums!

Just as an advice, many of us like to read the sheet music in case there's any. Maybe it's not the case here? Did you use a DAW to make this directly in MIDI + VSTs?

Hmmm. Still in the first mp3 you attached. I guess I should read these criticisms more in depth in order to see how much I would agree or disagree with them. Often, the definitions of what X or Y are depend widely on the person using them. I would be inclined to think that when somebody told you that there's "no melody" they tried to convey something a bit deeper than "there's absence of a melodic line". Maybe they themselves don't even know how any better way to tell you their thoughts, but again I am not sure since I did not read these comments myself.

There's obviously a melody in the sense there's an horizontal line in the piano (and later, on the strings) that's intentionally put on top of the rest of the sound mix, and there is some motive repeating here and there but it is shadowed by the —I would say, evident— vertical design of the piece in one hand, and also by the repetitive nature of the piece itself, a repetition that does not rely on the melody but that is commanded by that vertical design.

The block-ish simple 4-chord progression/wheel harmony (Em G Bm D, with ocassional variations G-> Am, Bm-> Eb), to me and in this very case, competes against the melody here, and successfully (to some of your critics disgrace) robs a good chunk of its prominence. Adding variations and ostinatos on top of or next to said melodic line does not help. On top of that, the dynamics that are not built by layering instruments/voices are in my opinion either very subtle or inexistent.

All in all, I can get people saying: "there's no melody" as an oversimplification of "this piece lacks a strong melodic line leading it". In fact, the harmony itself leads (or restricts) the melody. As much as there's rhytmic movement in the upper voice in the piano, it always stays inside of each bar. The piece barely moves from that so what the brain ultimately gets is "| Things | Things | Things | Things |". The melody is not on top of that, but constrained to that rigid sub-structure. Your alternative three "melodies" suffer from that. You build vertically, vertical sub-structure commands over horizontal movements, and thus the melody you build doesn't escape and get the prominence it needs to be righteously called a "melody". This does not mean that any piece with these characteristics will have no distinguishable melody, but that this happens in this particular case.

Let's stop a bit at the "it's just tinkling", I would not say that but I kind of get where this may come from too. Keeping in mind what I discussed in last paragraph, if you combine "melodic line not leading", "ostinatos & small variations" and we consider that the piano resorts to it's high register in order to make that melodic line more prominent, we get something that we could indeed call "piano tinkle". I would say it can be cantabile, but it can also feel easily forgettable because it again gets diluted by the things I have been pointing out in this message.

---

But wait a minute: do you intend this piece to have a prominent melodic line to begin with? After 3-4 listenings, it strikes me as a piece with (strong?) influence of the style of L. Einaudi (and the likes) . I'm not a fan, but it's yet another way to build music and it doesn't neccesarily rely on a melodic line to move things forward. For certain purposes, you don't even want things to "move forward". You may want to create an "atmosphere", or simply something whose main source of movement &/or development is not concentrated in the melody. You do you.

Finally: it doesn't strike me as a Ballade but I'm not sure if there's a clear defintion of that so no big deal.
Did you yourself think: "I want to make a piece with a clear, distinguishable melody."? Just curious.

Best regards,
Daniel–Ø.

I thank you very much for your vast explanations. Now I can understand much better what the people meant with their critics.

This initially should be an job from my sync agent. This youtube song was the example. Wanted was something in this style.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8AAacIL3LM

The track in the video has almost no melody. While the devoplemt of my piece I created a melody and I thougt with a melody in my piece it would sound much better.

Edited yesterday at 03:55 PM1 day by Sera Cinematic Music

5 hours ago, Sera Cinematic Music said:

This initially should be an job from my sync agent

I am unaware of this. Do you have a guy for... Wait, what's a sync agent in this context? 😆

A melody atop of the video &/or your piece can indeed sound better. But one must take certain things (some I did point out in the other reply, some not, some others I may not even know) into account when writing one. As a suggestion for experimenting yourself, perhaps you could try writing a melody with a distinguishable instrument (such as a flute, a clarinet, a music box, or whatever you want) on top of what you already have (minus what you think that could interfere) and see what happens, if it works, or it gets so cluttered.

Kind regards!

18 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

Just as an advice, many of us like to read the sheet music in case there's any. Maybe it's not the case here? Did you use a DAW to make this directly in MIDI + VSTs?

Yes, I use FL Studio. I use mainly Kontakt 8 and its libraries.

10 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

I am unaware of this. Do you have a guy for... Wait, what's a sync agent in this context? 😆

"A sync agent bridges the gap between music creators (artists, composers) and media executives (music supervisors)."

My sync agent is supposed to find work/jobs for me.

12 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

As a suggestion for experimenting yourself, perhaps you could try writing a melody with a distinguishable instrument (such as a flute, a clarinet, a music box, or whatever you want) on top of what you already have (minus what you think that could interfere) and see what happens, if it works, or it gets so cluttered.

This is a good idea! I will try it out with a flute or something.

6 hours ago, Sera Cinematic Music said:

"A sync agent bridges the gap between music creators (artists, composers) and media executives (music supervisors)."

My sync agent is supposed to find work/jobs for me.

So in this context, what should he have done that he did not? That's what's unclear to me, sorry!

6 hours ago, Sera Cinematic Music said:

Yes, I use FL Studio. I use mainly Kontakt 8 and its libraries.

Neat choice. FL Studio is indeed a very strong software, but this is then incidental music, and it's not intended for anyone to play it, right?

4 hours ago, Sera Cinematic Music said:

This is a good idea! I will try it out with a flute or something.

Don't hesitate on posting here how it went if you feel eager to!

Regards!

4 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

So in this context, what should he have done that he did not? That's what's unclear to me, sorry!

The piano piece was a job for a female singer. I rejected the job after I started composing. The payment was too low. The whole story takes too long.

4 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

Neat choice. FL Studio is indeed a very strong software, but this is then incidental music, and it's not intended for anyone to play it, right?

No, no one should play it.

4 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

Don't hesitate on posting here how it went if you feel eager to!

I have a very early version of a part with flutes. I tried to break up the 4 bars scheme.