My very first Tone Poem (my most ambitious completed orchestral work up-to-date)

Well, it's been so long since I was last here! I hope this community has been well since.

I’m looking for some nice detailed peer feedback on my first Tone Poem, Myst o' Foryst a Spryng Nyte. It is a 5-part programmatic work written for a large woodwind/brass configuration, percussion ensemble, and features a prominent chamber core of Viola, Double-Bass, and Piano. (My "Alto Piano Trio" ensemble)

I would be nicely interested in your thoughts on the orchestration, the pacing of the sections, and how you perceive the overall structural architecture as you listen along with the score.

Please tell me of your stylistic impressions of this piece!

(Note: this is a computer generated audio RENDER; not a live performance. Some of the techniques were lost in translation when it rendered, so it wouldn't sound correct. This is ESPECIALLY true of the audio files IIa and IIIa. If in a moment something sound so "wrong" and "off" in any of these audios, please rely on what is written on the page.)

Thank you for your time and ear!

A. Chen - Myst o' Foryst a Spryng Nyte - 000 - FULL SCORE (with Conductor's Rhythmic ref).pdf

Edited June 25Jun 25 by ARCMusicPublishings

Hmmm. I'm trying to figure out why other people's showcased music posts have mostly received replies and feedback within 1-3 days, while my piece has not seen a single reply after an entire week.

I'm just taking a shot at the dark: the majority of people who visited this thread have been subconsciously made resistant to finish the piece from start to end, after listening to the first few moments of it; noting my "flighty" music behavior: going from one idea to the next, without endowing and developing much of any of them. This makes them "not want to" discuss the music, because it would be "hard" to; when the "central themes are not there". Would this sound about correct? 😁

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edit - I said a whole lot more at first; and realize that I should keep it concise. This Tone Poem is meant to follow a style akin to "stream of consciousness": it's supposed to sound like ideas just come and go.

On the other hand, there are central themes, and they do develop. Like Stravinsky's "Rite", one simply can't readily note them on first, second or third listen. But, they are there!

Edited yesterday at 09:10 AM1 day by ARCMusicPublishings

This is an ambitious and challenging work.

It reminds me of two pieces I saw workshopped earlier this year, as part of the LSO's Panufnik Scheme (at least in terms of complexity of the scoring).

Not sure I can offer anything useful, since your scoring is far more advanced than mine!

I did spot one or two issues in the engraving that you're probably already aware of.

These were:

A misspelling on Page 2 ('deturned' instead of 'detuned' in the Viola instructions).

Awkward beaming alignment in Bar 35 of the celesta part (one of the noteheads seems to be floating away from the beam, and is missing a stalk).

Misaligned brackets in Bars 31 and 32 of the Doublebass part.

Bar 74 and elsewhere: not sure why you write Celest' instead of Celesta? Looks a bit odd.

Musically I really enjoyed it, and liked how you used the extended techniques.

These were not there just for the sake of it; but to create a useful effect within the narrative of the music.

I had to look up some of your directions (like gioiosamente), as I'd never seen them before!

Sorry I can't be of more help,

Alex

I'm sorry there hasn't been more comments on this very ambitious project. The orchestration is quite overwhelming. I wonder if more could have been accomplished with less. When I listened to the work mostly straight through .... I was looking/listening for a central prominent integrative theme(s) to guide me.... Did I miss something here?

Mark

Edited 19 hours ago19 hr by MJFOBOE

Rescinded.

Edited 18 hours ago18 hr by Alex Weidmann

Alex, I corrected the post ... you can delete yours ..........

Mark

Hmmm. I am a bit curious about what was said before the edit; and what was rescinded. What was happening while I was away at my breakfast and rehearsals in Bulgaria? 😁

10 hours ago, MJFOBOE said:

I'm sorry there hasn't been more comments on this very ambitious project. The orchestration is quite overwhelming. I wonder if more could have been accomplished with less.

Can you elaborate on what you believe could have been less and still achieved the same affect/goal? What exactly about my orchestration was "overwhelming"?

Specific measure numbers and/or sectional reference would be greatly helpful.

10 hours ago, MJFOBOE said:

When I listened to the work mostly straight through .... I was looking/listening for a central prominent integrative theme(s) to guide me.... Did I miss something here?

Well, there you have it.

Have you figured out the theme yet? 😊

13 hours ago, Alex Weidmann said:

I did spot one or two issues in the engraving that you're probably already aware of.

These were:

A misspelling on Page 2 ('deturned' instead of 'detuned' in the Viola instructions).

Awkward beaming alignment in Bar 35 of the celesta part (one of the noteheads seems to be floating away from the beam, and is missing a stalk).

Misaligned brackets in Bars 31 and 32 of the Doublebass part.

Bar 74 and elsewhere: not sure why you write Celest' instead of Celesta? Looks a bit odd.

Musically I really enjoyed it, and liked how you used the extended techniques.

These were not there just for the sake of it; but to create a useful effect within the narrative of the music.

I had to look up some of your directions (like gioiosamente), as I'd never seen them before!

Sorry I can't be of more help,

Alex

Alex, I greatly appreciate your pointing out the little notational errors.

In regards to many of them: I'm just going to point out that I'm still using Finale! After correcting an error, a new one may potentially pop up later.

My 2024 laptop continues to update, while the program doesn't anymore alongside it!

Sooner or later, I'm going to switch to Dorico. But, I suppose for the time being my having been a decades-plus-long customer of Finale makes me stubbornly clinging to it! ha!

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As far as Celest' versus Celesta is concerned: I suppose you raised a nice little question mark even for me. I'm actually not sure why I did this!! I suppose at some point, I learned of the conversational-shorthand "Celest'"; and thought it sounded pretty; and no one had so far objected to it. ***shrugs*** Of course, depending on how big of a distraction it is, I can simply revert to "Celesta" with no problems.

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Notational issues aside, I've never heard of the LSO Panufnik Scheme. The festivals that I have participated in are typically (though not exclusively) Global Arts United LLC programs: Sophia Symphonic Summit, Brasilia Orchestral Summit, Venetian Art and Music Festival, Vienna Contemporary Composer's Festival, etc. They all have their little unique musical (and social/professional) vibes. What is your program like?

Edited 9 hours ago9 hr by ARCMusicPublishings

I re-listened to the (entire) work.

"A tone poem (also called a symphonic poem) is a single-movement piece of orchestral music that tells a story, depicts a landscape, or illustrates a non-musical idea. Pioneered in the 19th-century Romantic era, it freed composers from traditional symphonic structures, allowing them to follow a narrative's mood and flow. [1, 2, 3]

Key Characteristics

• Programmatic Nature: Tone poems are a type of program music, meaning they are explicitly designed to evoke an extra-musical idea, such as a poem, short story, painting, or historical event. [1, 2]

• Single Movement: Unlike traditional symphonies, which are divided into distinct, shorter movements, tone poems are typically played in one continuous stretch where the music evolves with the story. [1, 2]

• Thematic Transformation: Composers often use a technique called thematic transformation or leitmotifs—where a specific, recurring musical theme morphs in tempo, key, or orchestration to reflect changes in a character's emotions or the progression of the plot. [1, 2]"

I feel the material could be integrated more, as per the leitmotifs. Each story to me feel too distinct isolated. It reminds me of the music used in telling stories/scenes in a adventure type video game. Now having said this, the orchestration is interesting and creative. In one section you have the English Horn playing against the piano ... maybe the dynamic of the piano should be softer since it overpowers the English Horn which has a softer projection ... Ravel has a piano duet with The English Horn where the piano is ethereal and supports the lush English Horn melodic line. Take a listen below: Listen at the 6 minute interval.

https://www.facebook.com/reel/2867905410232600

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by MJFOBOE

8 hours ago, ARCMusicPublishings said:

Notational issues aside, I've never heard of the LSO Panufnik Scheme. The festivals that I have participated in are typically (though not exclusively) Global Arts United LLC programs: Sophia Symphonic Summit, Brasilia Orchestral Summit, Venetian Art and Music Festival, Vienna Contemporary Composer's Festival, etc. They all have their little unique musical (and social/professional) vibes. What is your program like?

This is a scheme run by composer Colin Matthews and the London Symphony Orchestra, in memory of Polish composer Sir Andrzej Panufnik.

It's designed to help composers early in their careers.

They only accept 6 students per year, and after the workshop, 2 are selected to expand their works for a performance at London's Barbican Centre.

I've never applied to the programme myself; I just attended this year's workshop as an observer (since they're open to the public).