Symphonic Fugue in B minor - Episode 4 (Orchestration)

My dear fellow composers, after some weeks of quiescence, I’m presenting to you today my first attempt at orchestrating an existing composition for a full symphony orchestra.

The „sketch“ I have chosen is a composition of my own, a huge six-part quadruple fugue for piano in B minor, from which I picked the fourth episode being a transitional section between the development sections.

I especially love that section for its modulations, its slow arpeggios and the interwoven voice leading, which finally leads to a calming point on a diminished seventh chord before starting the next fast development section.

As I have no experience in orchestration for an entire ensemble, all kinds of feedback are appreciated. During the last few months, I thoroughly followed the excellent reviews of @MK_Piano on orchestrated scores, so that I hopefully got around with the most obvious pitfalls due to its help. However, there are a number of open questions remaining.

I hope, you’ll enjoy the piece.

Wieland

Episode4-Symphonic-Fugue-B-minor.pdf

To give some background to the work, here my immediate repost, where I share the piano score and the piano rendition of the excerpted fourth episode from the original fugue.

Comments and questions about the piece are welcome.

Episode4-Fugue-B-minor.pdf

Ollo! I will be looking at this score soon and giving some feedback. To preface some the explicit comments I will make, there are still a lot of engraving errors within the score.

1. Page Margins. I tried printing the score from my Google Browser and it increased the page margins of your document/ made the score smaller to fit the page. I would increase the margins by default.
2. Having multiple colors within the engraving. I can understand doing this for pedagogy or analysis, however, for publishing and performance, do not add multiple colors UNLESS it is for specific reason (i.e. Contemporary/ experimental music).
3. Clefs. Glockenspiel does not read a 15ma Treble Clef. Tuba does not read in 8vb Bass Clef. Piccolo does not read 8va Treble Clef. They all read the normal versions of the clefs, however, the concert/ sounding pitch may be in those ranges.
4. Rests. Even in 6/4, 3/2, or 5/4, an empty measure is represented by a singular whole rest, not the dotted whole rest. To add, in the current version of the score, they are all offset. An empty measure needs to have its rest centered on the bar.
5. Rests again. I will make specific annotations of this comment.
6. THE HARP. The harp is not a piano, and comparing to your Piano score, it feels like you dragged piano elements to the harp. To emphasize some of their differences, harpists DO NOT use their pinkies when playing. So, some intervals or passages/ groupings of notes, can become impractical if you just copied it from a piano part.
7. Harp Pedals. They do not need a pedal diagram for every change. A simple, and clearly placed letter will be enough to show which pedal to change. To add, most harpists will just write one in if you only pedal charts. It's visually redundant for performance (in my experience)
8. The Key. Your Title says B-minor, then you open the piece in Eb-minor and end it on a C# half-diminished chord. So... which is it? Are we really in B-minor? I didn't see the key signature for this mode at all. (I have not done any harmonic analysis at the time of this comment)

I will highlight some of these comments over the next day or two, however, let these serve as some food for thought. Good work!

Hello @MK_Piano, many thanks for your urgent response and your helpful comments so far!

To first give some context and answering the question 8. The Key., the underlying piano composition which I used for the orchestration is a six-part quadruple fugue for piano in B minor – the most complex composition I accomplished so far. It is 18 minutes long and has 360 measures and literally modulates to all 24 keys during its journey. I have chosen for the orchestration example, the fourth episode which is a modulating section from D# minor (wherein the fourth development section ends) to D major (which is the starting key of the fifth development section). Therefore, we have no B minor in this excerpt, but rather the modulation from Eb minor via C minor, A minor/A phrygian and finally by the C# diminished seventh chord to D major.

Hupps, just as I’m typing that and wondering why you talk about a C# half diminished while I was sure that it is a C# diminished seventh, I see a typo in the last measure: in the piano original we have a B-flat but I have taken over a B-natural. However it also sounds good and I did not notice this mistake while listening, but I think, I’ll fix it.

I just haven’t presented the entire piano fugue on YCF nor published it on YouTube yet (fortunately), so I came around with the – hopefully not too megalomaniacal – idea to use that material as the „sketch“ for an external composition competition. Therefore, again, many thanks for your comments, they will help me with this adventure. Sadly, I’m – if I participate in that contest – under „embargo“ concerning the material of the fugue I will use.

1. Page Margins. I also printed it and it has sufficient margins. Your troubles might have been caused since the PDF is in A4-format (as usual in Europe) and you probably tried to print it on an American printer? A full orchestral score on A4 is challenging, and one has to be very stingy with the space, but other commonly used formats for orchestral scores are not printable on a home or office printer and the contest’s request was also to use A4.

2. Having multiple colors within the engraving. I usually apply that colored annotations in fugues to highlight the subject entries, and I think it is helpful for analysis (thus, I use it in my videos and also when sharing pieces on the YCF). However, it is clear to me that a score intended for performance is only black and white. However, what do you think, would judges in a competition appreciate such a colored, analytical score, additionally?

3. Clefs and 4. Rests. I corrected the clefs with ottava numbers for Piccolo, Glockenspiel, Tuba and Contrabass as well as replaced the rests with centered whole rests whenever an entire measure is empty.

5. Rests again. Even if I have not yet seen your annotations, I guess that the suspected rests are merely those whenever two instruments share one staff. In this cases, whenever there are two voices on one staff, I often engraved the rests for both voices explicitely. But to make the score much more clearer, I suppose, you would suggest to apply that procedure only for the „divisi“ sections and in the other cases, if either only one instrument plays, or both in unison, to have only rests for the entire staff and not for each individual voice.

6. THE HARP. Yes, I have taken over as many as possible from the piano part to the harp, although I just had to make some simplifications concerning what notes are playable at one time (with a distinct pedal setting). I know that harpists are using only four fingers, therefore there are only „chords“ with maximum three notes in each staff. However, I suppose that you find some ninth intervals unplayable (while my online resources say that large intervals up to tenths would be playable using the thumb and the ring/fourth finger).

What I perhaps could do, is to simplify the harp part - meaning to get rid from the (remainder of the) six-part voice leading in the piano score, and to notate all (or at least the most) notes to be played as quarter notes. I suppose, there is no big difference between a quarter note, a half or even a whole or tied note, as the length of the sounding is determined inherently by the instrument and there is no explicit damping required (as in the piano part, there are also long passages with sustain pedal).

7. Harp Pedals. I replaced the pedal diagram with letters (which is also much better readable for me ...).

Episode4-Symphonic-Fugue-B-minor-revision1.pdf

24 minutes ago, Wieland Handke said:

Hello @MK_Piano, many thanks for your urgent response and your helpful comments so far!

To first give some context and answering the question 8. The Key., the underlying piano composition which I used for the orchestration is a six-part quadruple fugue for piano in B minor – the most complex composition I accomplished so far. It is 18 minutes long and has 360 measures and literally modulates to all 24 keys during its journey. I have chosen for the orchestration example, the fourth episode which is a modulating section from D# minor (wherein the fourth development section ends) to D major (which is the starting key of the fifth development section). Therefore, we have no B minor in this excerpt, but rather the modulation from Eb minor via C minor, A minor/A phrygian and finally by the C# diminished seventh chord to D major.

Hupps, just as I’m typing that and wondering why you talk about a C# half diminished while I was sure that it is a C# diminished seventh, I see a typo in the last measure: in the piano original we have a B-flat but I have taken over a B-natural. However it also sounds good and I did not notice this mistake while listening, but I think, I’ll fix it.

I just haven’t presented the entire piano fugue on YCF nor published it on YouTube yet (fortunately), so I came around with the – hopefully not too megalomaniacal – idea to use that material as the „sketch“ for an external composition competition. Therefore, again, many thanks for your comments, they will help me with this adventure. Sadly, I’m – if I participate in that contest – under „embargo“ concerning the material of the fugue I will use.

1. Page Margins. I also printed it and it has sufficient margins. Your troubles might have been caused since the PDF is in A4-format (as usual in Europe) and you probably tried to print it on an American printer? A full orchestral score on A4 is challenging, and one has to be very stingy with the space, but other commonly used formats for orchestral scores are not printable on a home or office printer and the contest’s request was also to use A4.

2. Having multiple colors within the engraving. I usually apply that colored annotations in fugues to highlight the subject entries, and I think it is helpful for analysis (thus, I use it in my videos and also when sharing pieces on the YCF). However, it is clear to me that a score intended for performance is only black and white. However, what do you think, would judges in a competition appreciate such a colored, analytical score, additionally?

3. Clefs and 4. Rests. I corrected the clefs with ottava numbers for Piccolo, Glockenspiel, Tuba and Contrabass as well as replaced the rests with centered whole rests whenever an entire measure is empty.

5. Rests again. Even if I have not yet seen your annotations, I guess that the suspected rests are merely those whenever two instruments share one staff. In this cases, whenever there are two voices on one staff, I often engraved the rests for both voices explicitely. But to make the score much more clearer, I suppose, you would suggest to apply that procedure only for the „divisi“ sections and in the other cases, if either only one instrument plays, or both in unison, to have only rests for the entire staff and not for each individual voice.

6. THE HARP. Yes, I have taken over as many as possible from the piano part to the harp, although I just had to make some simplifications concerning what notes are playable at one time (with a distinct pedal setting). I know that harpists are using only four fingers, therefore there are only „chords“ with maximum three notes in each staff. However, I suppose that you find some ninth intervals unplayable (while my online resources say that large intervals up to tenths would be playable using the thumb and the ring/fourth finger).

What I perhaps could do, is to simplify the harp part - meaning to get rid from the (remainder of the) six-part voice leading in the piano score, and to notate all (or at least the most) notes to be played as quarter notes. I suppose, there is no big difference between a quarter note, a half or even a whole or tied note, as the length of the sounding is determined inherently by the instrument and there is no explicit damping required (as in the piano part, there are also long passages with sustain pedal).

7. Harp Pedals. I replaced the pedal diagram with letters (which is also much better readable for me ...).

I see! This helps a lot of understanding. So, the overall fugue is modal, where in this excerpt, we are in Eb/D#-moll and modulate to the next mode for the Fifth Fugue. That makes a lot of sense. To add, yes, I did print on American Letter.

With the color engraving, I do not think it is good for performance. The simplest answer I can give to rationalize this, is simply to look at what is currently being printed and published now. No Das wohltemperierte Klavier from Bach is going to be color-coded by Henle, Bärenreiter, or Breitkopf und Härtel for the sake of showing the subjects. It is good for pedagogy and analysis, as printed theory books will include such information. However, not for performance. Anyone who has taken 18th century theory and counterpoint can identify that information with some effort.

The other thing about it is the perspective. The only time you may even need to include that info is for study of the entire score... So, when it comes to the conductor, are they going to be the only one to see that information? Are you going to format the parts with extra color for when each instrument has the subject? If a judging panel were going to see it, those questions arise and it would beg the question 'why did this composer feel the need to do this?'

When it came to multiple rests, when ever the part is playing, yes, please include the individual voice rests if only one of them is playing. However, when both parts are not playing, only use a single whole rest to show an empty measure. Yet, in the score, you still notate 1. or 2. for when that part is playing. This can be correct, however, at the beginning with the clarinets or trombones, if ONLY one is playing, then please show another rest for the other part that is not playing. This only applies on the score and for the entire duration a voice is playing.

For the parts, you would format separate documents for each instrument (two-parts for Trombones, Clarinets, etc. - Four-parts for horns). This said. you DO NOT need to write divisi for any other instrument except the strings. Divisi playing can be notated by the 1. or 2. you are using currently, however any other time should be notated by stem direction and rests, NOT the term divisi. If both parts are playing together, then only show one line of music.

Why? because the parts will be separated. A conductor will see the different stem directions and know what those instruments are doing. The exception to this is in concert band/ wind ensemble music. That field sees something like 7 clarinets on one part, and in that case, you can just use numbers and a-due (a2.) to show when the parts are together. In orchestral music, not so much.