Woodwind Technique Question

I am currently writing a piece for full orchestra and want to include a section where the woodwinds and horns have an extended held note (quite long, lasting for some 10 or 20 measures). Is it practical to write such a long tied note, instructing the performers to play it in one breath? I've heard of circular breathing that supposedly enables a wind player to sustain a note indefinitely as they take in air through their nose while exhaling. However, I'm not sure if this can be done with all instruments.

Any advice would be appreciated, especially if you play a woodwind or brass instrument.

Thanks.

...Is it practical to write such a long tied note, instructing the performers to play it in one breath? I've heard of circular breathing ...However, I'm not sure if this can be done with all instruments.

Circular breathing is possible - some instruments easier than others. The problem is it's also easier for some players than others. It's not quite a required/standard ability for a professional player. You may encounter a few players with the technique, and some who simply don't know how to do it...

Better idea: double some voices, and instruct them to stagger breathe...

...

Thanks for letting me know that. I'll try the doubling of voices technique.

No need. I play in a wind band and the flutes had that once. All you need to do is assume there is more than one player per voice. One player holds the note for a certain amount of measures and then is allowed to breathe while the other player(s) take his/her/their turn at it. But no need to write it any differently, unless you want only one player per voice.

As for circular breathing, I've only ever met one person who could do it and he was a virtuoso from Israel who was visiting Switzerland at the time. Can't remember his name but I'll look it up and edit it in later -.-

P.S. I've heard of brass doing circular breathing, but never woodwinds. Just because I haven't heard of it doesn't mean it isn't the case however...

yep. they overlap, making sure they don't all take a breath at the same moment!

My flute teacher can circular breath, and so could her flute teacher. She's trying to teach me but I can't quite get it. It's easier than you would think though.

My flute teacher can circular breath, and so could her flute teacher. She's trying to teach me but I can't quite get it. It's easier than you would think though.

Why can't you get it then? :thumbsup:

:wub:

I can almost do it. I just run out of breath after (quite a long) while. So I guess it's not "proper" circular breathing.:thumbsup:

No need. I play in a wind band and the flutes had that once. All you need to do is assume there is more than one player per voice.

Yeah, that's kind of what I meant by doubling the voices...sorry I wasn't clearer. Stagger breathing - staggering when people breathe.

...I've heard of brass doing circular breathing, but never woodwinds...

It's actually considerably easier for woodwinds...it's a very commonly used extended technique. For brass, it gets harder, the bigger your horn is.

Forget circular breathing - most will never bother to learn to do it.

I think that for a composer who doesn't actually play a particular instrument, it's a reasonable assumption that the players/director will work out what to do in ensemble.

In writing for soloists you may hit problems.

Flautists take a lot of breath, much of which is wasted. They breathe often. Oboists need little breath so they can sustain very long notes (or play very long phrases) - except their embouchure is tiring and they'll start to go dizzy if the phrase/sustain is too long - simply it's like holding your breath - evenually your lungs need replenishing with oxygen or you faint!

etc.

But the same issue exists with strings. Few composers here worry about the excessively long sustains they write. With 8 desks of violins 1 etc, each player changes bow direction at a different point (or in groups anyway) - only the very best soloists, though, could change bow direction seamlessly so you'd have to consider what you can do to help the player make an unobtrusive bow change.

But that's real life. Sampled orchestras can do anything because looping should have been thought out during sample production.

Watch players in an orchestra or talk to them if you can.

Well, I tried to do circular breathing, but it's really really hard. And I bet, not many of the flautists out there can do it. The only person that I know who possess such technique is James Galway. But anyway, to answer your question, all we have to do is stagger breath. Which means, typically speaking, there are 2 or 3 flute players in the orchestra, and basically what we do is let one player play for about a certain length and the other takes over just right before the 1st player dies out of oxygen. And we can continue that for as long as possible. Hope this helps, good luck on your piece, would love to hear it when it's finished.

Cheers mate :huh: