Lesson with Daniel

I could have spent more time on this, and made it a bit more convincing here and there, but I hope this will do anyway.

Just using T1 chords... which you can "cheat" with because an inversion basically gives you an 11th chord etc. :P

Little Polychord Piano Sketch

Little Polychordal Piano-sketch.MUS

Daniel, I edited your post to include a link to a recording, hope you don't mind.

Just for those who don't happen to have Finale or GPO.

Well, I must say this was MUCH better than I could have hoped for, as well as longer hehehe

I'm VERY happy you played extensively with inversions. There were some beautiful effects you acheived there.

Do you feel like using the exact same harmonic sketch now to create something "smoother"?

I think it would be very interesting to see you use the exact same harmonic plan, all the same harmonies, in the same order, but treat it as an Adagio this time... maybe left-hand arpeggios, something lyrical above, a "romantic" approach.

Basically, create a "variation" on this brief piece, with a completely different feel. The same chord progressions, exactly. Let's see how they work in a different context.

Do you feel like using the exact same harmonic sketch now to create something "smoother"?

Yes, sure, I'll get on that.

If it's to be a romantic adagio, i'll have to be inventive.... as to how the left hand takes care of ALL the harmony, instead of just the lower parts.

I'll see what I can do.

Glad you didn't think it was total rubbish :P

don't worry about playability.

I'd just like you to consider the exact same material, in a completely different context.

I finally had some time today to sit down and write this.

It is decidedly more of an andante, than a romantic adagio.... no soaring melody etc... and as it is, it's something of a variation on the original, seeing as so much of it is the same.. but it is certainly in a different context. My mind was turned to other things when i thought of the adagio..

There are still problems in this version, but I don't have huge amounts of time to sit through and make it better. Oh- and it's harder on the pianist this time :w00t: some nice stretching and leaping.

Variations on Polychordal sketch.MUS

that was lovely.

The thing about using polychords is establishing a form of "natural" movement to the chords. By limiting to one "type" of polychord we kept the difficulties to a minimum, exploring the movement of intervals and sonoroties from transposition to transposition, and inversoin to inversion rather than trying to establish some sort of "tonal" relationship.

Are you up to exploring a bit further now?

It would be nice to see you use two or three different types of polychord now. Again, a very brief piece (shorter than this), for piano again if you wish.

What would be nice now is to get a clear sense of movement, of "progression". So if you establish a sort of chord progression, it should function as a thematic element.

For example, if you were to create a sequence of three or four chords that could serve as your material generator, then it would be transposed, inverted and used as a sort of unit (think cellular music, but with polychords rather than actual note cells). In the same way a classical-era composer might have developed his thematic material from a set sequence of harmonic materials (for example, the eternal I - IV - V - I), here you can establish a set of chords to function in the same way. The advantage is we aren't limited by actual tonality, so you may roam quite far and wide via transpositions of your chords.

Maybe we can start by thinking of our audience as well... consider that we aren't establishing a "key" in the traditional sense, but we need to have a sort of home point. So if your chord sequence moves to a very distant "tonal" area, you might need to repeat it a few times to give the ear a sort of anchor.

I'd also like for you to continue with the use of "broken" polychords. A single 6-note chord can offer a great deal of material through reduction of the initial polychord.

If you are still searching for ways to move "amongst" the various polychords, here are a few:

Anchors: Anchors are notes around which the rest of a chord will shift. They can be single notes or pairs of notes (see image). The anchor becomes common to both (or more) polychords in your progression. In effect, it is a form of pedal. Equivalent notes in each componant triad are selected to function as anchors. The remaining notes move to a "new key area". The movement can be absolutely parallel (moving to modally identical areas) or chromatically unequal (moving to mixed mode areas).

Pivots: Pivots are notes that remain common to a progression like anchors, however, the non-static elements will move in mirror motion. Therefore, the pivot will generally be a note that is placed to allow for symmetry.

You can mix up the types of common notes, and go further than I have shown here. These were simple examples. The examples I've used here are intended for movement between polychords of high consonance. If you allow for more dissonance then you open up considerably more harmonic territory.

The fun, once you've set out a harmonic pattern, is to then develop it and let the composer take over from the construction worker.This is only a means to set out a harmonic framework from which to compose something.

Thickened lines: as you see from the examples, what we are getting is basically a counterpoint of intervals rather than distinct lines. If you set out destination zones, you can move from one harmonic area to another through very colourful passing chords.

So would you like me to write a piece, or create just the harmonic cell or framework from which to create something?

I'd also like for you to continue with the use of "broken" polychords. A single 6-note chord can offer a great deal of material through reduction of the initial polychord.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean here.. do you mean creating broken chord figurations by reducing the 6 note polychord?

Edit: uh-oh, we posted at the same time... I'll read your new post now.

hehehe, that happens.

OK, it's entirely up to you.

If you feel up to writing a new short piece, then go for it.

If you want to set only a harmonic framework, then start with that.

Broken as in "less than 6 notes" from the harmonic agglomeration.

One question you can pose yourself while working with this sort of material is how little of the entire chordal material is needed for it to retain its identity.

Ok, I've decided to just go for the harmonic cell now, because I'm busy... exam on Monday, then more..

And besides, I don't want to be building on what might be a faulty foundation.

The harmonic cell is rather short... an harmonic motive? :(

Tell me if you want something more substantial.. also if you want the .mus.

I have the urge to write something, so I may at some point.....although I'm still v busy with exams, but is that little chunk of harmony an OK thing from which to build?