Walter Rhoads

Yes. Walt

[quote name='Rapha

I saw "Hook" but don't recall it well enough to hear any overlap (I do love John Williams' music and have his "Best Of" two-CD set, but don't recall "Hook" being on it). I'm going to critique "Call" not on a technical basis (because I don't really have the training to do that), but on an emotional one--that is, what does the music suggest to me? Okay, first, I hear this as a theme for a fantasy-adventure film, in the same genre as the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy. The opening, in its orchestration, suggests folk-legendary elements to me; brave heroes full of optimism, the whole suggesting the nobility of the quest. There is a lightness that suggests whimsy--perhaps the heroes aren't big strapping he-men? But they're heroic nonetheless. Then, horns in a low register inform us that this quest is serious, with real danger. But the chimes/glockenspiel reinforce the sprightly nature of the enterprise. (The heroes might have some elves and hobbits in their family tree.) Then, harp(?) tell us that, while there is a tone of fun, still this adventure has its sad and serious side--this is not a joke; heroes can get hurt. Finally, toward the end, what sounded to me like the notes F-E with the pitch bent like a droning voice in low woodwinds (bassoon?) assisted by the horn section, tells us that the threat faced by our heroes is indeed large, ominous, and unearthly. They face the prospect of dark magic. Is this more or less how you wanted it to be heard? (Note: Isn't the ominous phase toward the end the same one used repeatedly in "Lost?" Which is okay, of course--some commonality of conventions ensures that listener and composer are all using the same language--otherwise you couldn't get the point across.) Let me also praise your orchestration. It's one thing to come up with melodies--I think everybody here can do that--but to fully orchestrate something for a large ensemble is, I suspect, much harder. :thumbsup: Walt Rhoads

Because famous composers have styles--their work has characteristics that tend to identify them to the listener. The great ones typically are models of a style or school. Everyone wants to be original, but comparisons are still useful. As a rule, artists can be loosely grouped, and that includes lesser creators such as ourselves. In trying to understand any work of art--visual, musical, etc.--it's helpful to identify points of similarity to what has gone before. Although this can lead to an excessive emphasis on categorization--pigeonholing--it is still a basic tool of appreciation. Hypothetical example: "Artist X says he paints out of doors, he uses broken color and indistinct outlines, his colors are bright and saturated--in this painting, Artist X could be said to be an Impressionist. We don't know if he has studied historical Impressionism and has borrowed their innovations, which were original at the time, or if he actually is ignorant of them and has somehow re-invented the wheel. But he certainly has a kinship with Impressionism." (Referring to Impressionism in painting, not music) Or, in music: First Listener: Composer Ys' music is not without passion, but that passion is under intellectual control to a high degree. In his precise and symmetrical structure, he is more reminiscent of Mozart than Beethoven. If I had to choose, I would have to say he's more Classical than Romantic." You get the idea. I just made these up. Usually in the arts, no matter what you're doing, someone else has already done it, and usually done it better. Those are the names in the history books. And usually there have been enough points of similarity for innovative individuals to be grouped with others of (somewhat) like mind. Often this process is highly annoying to the artists, and simply serves to simplify lazy critics' homework. But it is still a fundamental tool that we all use. I'm not suggesting I'm greater than anyone else, or belong with the immortals, just that finding characteristics in common helps us to understand something new. W.R

Thanks! Walt

Here's the pdf. hewished.pdf This is what I got when I made a pdf from the staff mode of Anvil. If the notation doesn't show what's heard, blame Anvil, not me. As for what's heard, it's not random. It would be unlikely to show what logical progression it has (and there is some) if it were random. It was the product of intention, following my melodic instinct. I've heard jazz improvisations on standards from that genre's repertoire that are MUCH more abstruse than this--you have to really listen for a while to discern that all that slogging is oh, "My Funny Valentine," let's say. Music--sound in an organized pattern, a sonic design, a non-meaningless succession of pitches, with some sort of rhythm--is a large capacious ballpark, a giant football stadium. By definition,it's not unlimited, but it is large. I am in that ball park. I am not outside in the parking lot. The area outside represent noise, if you're following my analogy. Mozart may be on the fifty-yard line, while I may in the cheap seats, but I'm still in the stadium. Sounds random, but not even good enough to be classed with the category of music that's primarily random? Sounds like I'm in an untenable category. I shouldn't have been so honest, owning up to the fact that I still don't understand all the facets of the program I purchased. Next time I wade into a swimming pool with sharks, I'll make sure I'm not bleeding. I supposed you don't want to hear a piece that's a digression from "Mona Lisa" into some Arabicism? The beginning of "Mona Lisa" can be heard in mine if the listener is familiar with the song. I'm going to do something more pleasurable now, like hitting my head with a board. So long, and thanks for all the fish. Walt

Hmm...you're entitled to your opinion, but I assure you it wasn't random. I thought the ears around here would pick up on that, and that the criticism would be more along the lines of "...it sounds like (-------; fill in some composer from historical record), but it's not developed, more like a fragment," etc. I didn't think anyone would think this was random. It has intention and to me there is a melodic structure. Some of my others are more accessible on first hearing, but now I'm hesitant about submitting them. Since it just sounds like noise to you, yet is not as chaotic as some you know of that are playable, I don't know what to say. Not as chaotic must mean there is some order, eh? I gather you didn't perceive a derivation from the line "I wish they all could be California girls..." (the Beach Boys, "California Girls.") That was the point of departure. I detect a note of hostility. But I'm going to thank you for posting, since getting some kind of response was my goal. But your feedback isn't very meaningful or helpful to me. You don't compare it to anyone's production at all. It doesn't sound like anything you've ever heard before? Are you sure? Nothing in your experience is comparable? Evidently I made the wrong wager when I submitted one of the edgier ones. I wish you all well. Walter

I really liked it. I thought it was full of variations and the four minutes plus seemed to go by quickly. The bass wasn't too loud, the piano at the end wasn't obnoxious. What would happen if you substituted electric organ for the saxophone? It starts out as more jazz-sounding, but then becomes more like jazz-derived keyboard riffs by rock bands like Boston and Emerson, Lake and Palmer. Performed live, with the right people and instruments, and perfected, I think you'd really have something--you might segue this into a related composition in sort of a medley as the finished piece. All in all, I consider this piece a winner.

I liked it, actually. Even though this general type of music isn't my favorite. I've heard a fair amount of it, though--I used to attend the Burning Man festival every year, and the sonic environment there is very heavily techno/dance/house/whatever you wish to call it... electronically-produced dance music, filling the air of the desert night. I always enjoyed the event, so I have positive associations with this kind of music, even though, in itself, it doesn't interest me overmuch. Good job. I am continually impressed by the talent of the members here. Walter

It sounds like perfect music for perhaps an Eastern European circus until you introduce the theme that starts, if I'm not mistaken, B, C-C#-D...which I've heard somewhere so those who say you unconsciously swiped something are right. You then seem to base the rest of it on this theme, which as I recall is commonly used in the circus. I think it's okay to quote something briefly, to do homage to the older work and to place yours alongside it in a tradition--but to use it at length, even if unconsciously, is unacceptable. But please don't junk the opening--to my ear, that is your own, and as I said, it sounds like very appropriate stuff for the circus, sideshow, etc.--that part of the realm of show business which has always defined the weird, wonderful and fantastic. So your title is actually appropriate. As for the orchestration, it too sounds eccentric, but that may be just what you want. By the way, I've been trying to get someone to listen to my short, eccentric piano piece on the piano section of the forum. I have a lot more I could post, and some of them are probably better, but it hardly seems worth it to post any more until the first one is examined. Could you perhaps give it a listen and tell me what you think?. See "He Wished" on piano forum. Thanks. I've been trying to listen to as many posted compositions as I have time for, and comment thoughtfully on each, so it would be great if someone could reciprocate.

All right, I'll comment. Not from a highly technical perspective, because I don't have that, but from one that is fairly broad musically. No, it's not particularly developed, but for an early effort, it sounds rather sophisticated to me. I'm sure you could do more with it now if you chose. As it is, it seems like a film music cue...have you looked at the film score and incidental music board yet? Pieces of music that are not developed in themselves can still be absolutely valid as part of a larger whole, or as an aid to a larger dramatic work. This piece reminds me a little of the score Burt Bacharach did for "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid." No doubt before your time, since it came out in 1969, but since "film is forever"( as the American Film Institute likes to say), nothing that is still in existence and can be viewed and heard is before your time. If you haven't seen this film, you may wish to give it a listen. Now that I have commented on yours, could you please return the favor and comment on mine? It's in the post titled "Here's One of My Piano Compositions." I said then, "...be honest, but be kind. I'm new at this." Well, no one has commented and I'm getting frustrated, so be cruel if you must, but you are encouraged to say something. As far as educated listeners are concerned, I compose in a vacuum. No one in my immediately vicinity has the knowledge, perception and inclination to offer anything relevant about my increasingly numerous piano compositions. I thought my sister would, but she informed me that, although she has studied music, can play the piano and currently sings in a choir, she doesn't respond to instrumental music. "I need words," she said. And this is from someone who's got a good ear and enjoys listening to music. Imagine the lack of response I get from the tone-deaf. So humor me and listen to the thing, then give me your impression. Technical analysis is also desired;I won't understand most of it immediately but I can look up the terms and study the concepts. I'm an intuitive composer and don't compose by historical formulae because I don't know them. I know a few chords, scales and modes and my sight reading is so slow as to be useless. I have no desire to become a clone of some perfect, conservatory-trained music student, but I would like to know what it is I have been doing, so that I can become better at whatever it apparently is my destiny to do. Thanks. Walter

Andy: Wow! You're ready for the big time! Honestly, while listening to your score for the Spider Man main title, I kept thinking, "this is so comparable to the real score by Danny Elfman, and works to support the visuals in such a comparable manner, that I can't remember Danny Elfman's as I'm hearing it!" And everything you wrote works for the scenes I saw. And the directors impress me, this guy LeBrun and the others. How did they get such production values? These look like productions with budgets that aren't tiny. Indiana Jones versus Batman was hilarious. Basically, all of you guys should be in Hollywood right now. You're ready. Walter Rhoads... old, but young as a composer (nine months)

Good piece! It not only sounds happy, it sounds salable--I can easily imagine this as the theme for a PBS television program. It would work just as you did it, or with another arrangement. Register the copyright and try selling it--I'm serious. I'm sure you're aware that part starts to sound like the intro to the "Do Re Mi" song from "Sound of Music," but you end the phrase differently than Richard Rodgers did, so you're in the clear. It has a Celtic/Irish folk sound, I think. Don't you? As for the question, "Am I happy," no, today I'm not. Neither my wife nor my sister has any appreciation of instrumental music, so until I start finishing my pop songs (in progress), I'll continue to get blank stares. Walter Rhoads (who was 21 thirty-three years ago--yes, I'm old!)

I had a productive day today, musically-speaking: four new short piano pieces; in duration, 2:38, 3:20, 1:32, and 1:54. They have a family resemblance, but don't all sound alike. I use a great many 1/32nd notes, and at 60 to 66 beats per minute, they really move along. Some (not those today) move at 80 bpm, and they're even quicker. Not unplayable, for someone who's really fast and good--certainly, if "Flight of the Bumblebee" is playable, these are--but fast. I'm probably a bit arpeggio-happy, but since I don't have to physically play these to compose them (I use Anvil MIDI software), it's no extra effort to make them zip up and down scales (my favorite tends to be the Phrygian) like a band of mad gypsies trying to start fires with the sawing of their fiddles. I think four in one day is my current record, so I now have a certain sense of accomplishment. Hope everyone's creative output is likewise in top gear.:thumbsup: Walter Rhoads

Berlioz: The ear is the final judge. You wrote a brilliant piece of music. It was powerful, yet poignant, conveying an idea of loss, regret, bereavement, perhaps wisdom hard-earned. It wasn't happy or thrilling or comical, but I'm sure it wasn't meant to be--the title is a good fit for this piece. And at twelve minutes, it's not too long. The carping about the notational aberrations are inconsequential to me, since my playing ability is such that I couldn't attempt it at all. I understand that some regularization of the written form is necessary if we are to have a common musical language that allows everyone with the requisite playing ability to play it. But look again to my first sentence. In the end, nothing more need be said. Good work. Walter Rhoads