healey.cj

Hi, I'm having a bit of trouble. I have a student doing AMEB's new Music Craft syllabus, currently on grade 5. The problem is that there is no accompanying teacher's books, and what is given in the student book is vague and more learn-by-inference. This would be fine because I know all the material we are covering... However, I'm uncertain about the counterpoint stuff the books cover. There is NO WHERE that gives a definitive list of which rules they are testing. And there are quite a lot of variations where counterpoint is concerned. Oh sure, no consecutive perfect consonances etc. Avoid awkward leaps. First species is note against note etc. etc. BUT some counterpoint systems allow minor and Major Sixths in first species... Some allow both ascending, but only the minor 6th descending. etc. And some say no more than a tenth between the voices, others an octave. Other say that the span should be proportional to the span of the C.F. And so on. It's really bothering me because I could teach her the Fux rules etc and she get her exam back and find out that there was some non-fux rules that applied etc. And like I said... I can't find the AMEB info anyway. Can anyone with AMEB Counterpoint experience please clarify the applied rules if possible? Thanks!

LOL :D Perfect Timing haha To be honest, I don't think the iPad is really that overpriced. What can you really buy for $800, either Laptop, Netbook or Desktop (with screen)? Not a great deal really. Although I do think it is a bit crippled. I think it should have a usb port so that when you want to make and edit documents (as Apple has made a iPad version of iWork) you can easily move it to a computer if you need to without having to plug the whole tablet in. But I really like the idea of a touch screen for composing anyway. I have this ultimate vision in my mind of being able to grab a stylus and write the music on the screen and it gets converted into the electronic version which you can then playback. No more clicking and typing. But I don't think any of the iPad generations will be able to facilitate that. There are a few Windows 7 "slate" or tablet device due out at the end of this year, which will be interesting to see as well. Although, after having the equivalent Windows-Mobile type iPhone, and then buying an iPhone, I've realised that, for me at least, i'd rather a product is a bit limited in what it can do, but does those things to perfection. The flip side is you have a product which has the potential to do looots of things, but can't really do any of them all that well. That's the Mac idea I think... Simplicity through limited function. lol I'd LOVE to see the HP slate when it comes out and find that it kicks the iPad's donkey, is easy and user friendly, but also elegant and with more functionality. I'm not brand-biased. I just want the product that works best! :D

Hey, Well you've probs all heard the stuff about the iPad... Seriously though, if finale made an iPad version, I'd probs go buy one on release day haha Anyone tried any of the other composing apps in the App Store?

Hey, I accidentally selected "double size" when I loaded a movie with finale the other day and now all I get is the top 1/4 of the video taking up most of my page, and I can't get at the controls (which are off the screen) to reduce the video size. Closing it and opening it doesn't help reset it. (Yup, even restarted my comp) And since I've maximized the window, I can no longer see the movie window in other finale files... It shows that it is ticked, but it is no where to be found! So just making a new finale document and copying doesn't work either. Please help asap! I'm need to get this film music finished so I can record this afternoon!!! Thanks!

Oh, I was just ranting :-) Actually, while I didn't say it, I was hoping some of you might have advice/suggestion for how to develop this skill? hehe It is a skill I really want to learn, but I've ended up using finale anyway now because I can't stand the thought of the first time I hear it being with performers and discovering that it doesn't sound like it was meant to. Maybe I'll write some simple music on the side, to get a feel for it, and then gradually allow myself to get more comfortable with the process, because at the moment, I'm ending up at a complete stop where it is like loop of doubt: "I can't be sure that what I wrote sounds like it is supposed to, so how can I be sure what the next section should sound like?" Let me be clear that I do come up with all my materials and ideas before using finale, but I still seem to need it to verify that it sounds the same on paper, and if not the same, then good none the less.

Fair enough. I'll bin the book.

lol Mozart is the first person *known* to have composed twinkle twinkle little star, so for all intents and purposes he might as well have written it. Before Mozart it was really just a poem that was sung. I'm surprised by the criticisms posed at the Levitin book, because he does reference studies etc throughout?

hehe not twatter... just a distraction lol If this was a tonal piece it'd be no problem but it's not and I'm just being a cry-baby, I know :D Time to get started again then.

Argh...! I'm writing my first decent-sized composition by hand. I've been using finale for years and really do think it is worth taking the time to do it by hand. The piece is for full orchestra (for now anyway) and finale wouldn't have a hope in creating anything that sounds even remotely like the beginning section as it will use largely bowed cymbals and bowed marimba and also some quarter-tonal vibrato stuff from the strings. I have noticed that my ideas for this piece are far more sophisticated than they would be with my usual finale-based approach. I think If I can ever get it down on paper, it will be something worth listening to. Unfortunately, the writing of this is painfully slow and is making me incredibly anxious because I am in a constant state of self-doubt LOL Sigh. It will get better once I start trusting myself, I'm sure, but for now, it is just painful.

Good post, Gavin!

Yup, So does this mean on the narrow edge of the gong? Or simply towards the outside (generally black-coloured) area? Anyone know where I can hear the difference?

You're welcome, Gardener :-) ---- I have to wonder if the "ugliness" of dissonance has actually come from movies and T.V.? I mean, people hear the Psycho theme and they can't help but imagine that scene in the shower... I am forced to wonder weather a life-time of similar associations has lead to dissonance being "ugly" because it invokes emotions and images related to rather disturbing acts. It is the same with Major and Minor chords probably. Minor sounds "sad". We've all heard this, but does it really or have we just attached a sad emotional reaction to it? Any other thoughts?

A recurring theme I see on this site is that music is has harmony, melody, or both. I think of music as organized sound. Sound that has been put together in a certain way to achieve a certain result. Ligeti is wonderful, but it is focused on the actual texture and timbre, not melody and harmony. Just like people will often put on a recording of the ocean or other areas of nature to relax - it doesn't have harmony or melody, but it is immensely pleasing. Just relax when you listen to it, let yourself actually experience it and you might be pleasantly surprised by how interesting and alive the music is. It is a completely different experience than listening to Beethoven, but it is none-the-less an amazing experience if you stop fighting with ideals.

Puke green doesn't make you feel sick - unless you associate what you are seeing to puke. It isn't the colour, it is the association you have with it. haha you are totally right. Radiohead is a good example indeed. But then, why? I don't think it is the music, because what's being played in concert halls is often far from the most out-there music, but there is a stigma attached to it... Or at least, that is the way it seems.

Then why does no one come to performances of Contemporary Classical music, but millions will go and see Andre Rieu? Or is it just that classical music is dead full stop and Rieu is only drawing crowds on showman ship? I do agree with you though, I have some friends who are 'classical' guitarist who seem to think things should always be 'pretty' whatever that is supposed to me. EXACTLY!!! That was what I was trying to get at.

I dunno. Not as much as you'd like, I'm sure. LSO might pay a good wage though! lol God, I love LSO!

Okay, I don't obviously think dissonance is bad, but the general public seem to think that it is... and I have no idea why. I mean, you play a cluster of notes, and it shouldn't sound "bad"... there is absolutely nothing about it to be 'bad' or 'ugly', it is just a sound... Why does the general public seem to attach so much significance to the sound instead of actually listening to it? It is like when you offer a kid something they've never eaten before and you have one of those conversations: You: here try this Kid: No, I don't like it You: Have you had it before? Kid: No. You: Then how do you know? Kid: It looks funny. (At which point you quickly remind yourself of the punishment for Child Abuse :P - just kidding) The irony with music is that people seem adverse to it in every situation except when it accompanies a visual stimuli, and then they don't even notice it. I mean, ask a non-musician to describe the music in the new Harry Potter movie, and they would probably not have any idea what they had just heard. There was enough dissonance in their that by 'normal' standards, people should cringe or turn their nose up at it... but they don't?! WHY! lol

Just because we haven't got 'perfect pitch', doesn't mean we aren't receiving absolute information. In fact, as far as the brain is concerned, everything we hear is encoded ABSOLUTELY onto our neurons. Our neural networks fire in exact sympathy with pitch, and it is the relativistic part of our perception that science is still confused about. Out of all our experienced, sound is the only thing that is directly mapped. Also, our the neural response to music is so exact that you can actually wire someones brain to a speaker while playing them a piece of music, and you will get a very accurate copy coming from the speaker. I'm not making this up, go read the book "This is your brain on music" (I think that is its title)

It is a little hard to tell because it's a finale recording, but you could add some sustained notes from the Violin in the upper octaves to add some shimmer to some sections. My other comment, would be to give the Bass some sort of counter melody, at least in the beginning few minutes. Listen to the funeral march from Beethoven's Eroica (2nd movement) to get what I'm talking about... Especially the second half... Of course I'm not saying to turn this into a funeral march! lol Just that with this stuff, the ear will naturally follow the very top and very bottom so make sure that it is always something worth listening to :-)

I like your work, Inal. The forum is missing you lol

G Major doesn't sound brighter than F# to me like your prediction would indicate. Also that would mean that if I played F# major above middle C, and then I play F Major an octave above that, the F Major would then sound brighter. It doesn't, it just sounds "lighter" but not brighter in the way I'm thinking.

So what about all the composers SINCE the invention of equal-temper pianos who have written for it in numerous different keys? A lot of film composers believe that D minor is the saddest key. I can find you and interview with Hans Zimmer saying that. I don't know why, but there are subtle difference between different keys. I remember writing a piece for flute and piano in F# but decided to re-write it into a different key for sight-reading purposes (long story)... anyway, I tried the basic idea in each of the 12 keys and it did *not* sound the same or have the same character in every key. I ended up settling for F Major as the closest (G Major was not even close) but when I listen to the recording, it still hasn't got the same "brightness" of F# No, I don't have perfect pitch. When I'm thinking about music, I do, for the most part, have some visualization, of either a piano, the staff and the notes etc, or the particular fingering of the note on a certain instrument - even instruments I don't play lol I've never really trusted this though and always end up at a piano to make sure I'm writing what is actually in my head. Maybe I need to trust myself a bit more?

I find it incredibly interesting that the thread stops HERE... It is like everyone just went "oh, yeah. Forgot about that. I guess I'll shut up then" LOL Of course I could be completely wrong, but I think this is a topic worth exploring in itself: How do you people who avoid instruments/finale altogether go from head to paper? (Assuming no absolute pitch) ....and if anyone tries to tell me that it doesn't matter so long as all the 'relationships between the notes are correct' I will kill someone! lol I mean, be real, D Major and C Major are not the same thing. If every key sounded the same, why would anyone write a piece with a home key other than C Major or A minor? So you people who avoid instruments and score-writers... Do you use a tuning fork? Or do you 'just know' what notes you are thinking?

Just wanted to add my congratulations... although having listened to this, I must confess it was VERY MUCH DESERVED! This piece is fantastic and invoked lots of incredible imagery! The blending and use of timbre etc is incredibly sophisticated, and really makes use of the best each instrument has to offer. And the way it is constructed makes it one of the few piece in this style that I've really enjoyed. Finally, some incredible, rich and vastly enjoyable music which isn't melody-centric. Bravo!

Lol look what I started! :p