Sirion

When it comes to art music, I've yet to use a text of my own. I usually find a text I like, and conceive the nature of the piece around it.

The second poll should probably have a "less than half" option.

I have the book, and I've learned a lot from it. Definitely a worthwhile investment, as everyone else who's written in the thread have already pointed out. Since we're onto the topic, I'd like to ask you about a related question: Does anyone have a suggestion for a complimentary book that goes in-depth on the matter of choral/vocal ensembles with orchestra?

I have no objections to these comments; well said. Hopefully I didn't come across as "backwards elitist", that was not my intention at all.

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The link seems to be broken. EDIT: It works now. That's quite a read! I'm probably going to wait for a couple of days to comment, since it's an extensive, yet heavy read, that demands a couple of read-throughs. Do you have any sort of connection to Sweden I see quite a few Swedish titles in your bibliography.

Counterpoint Instruction Software - Free and Species Counterpoint Anyone ever tried this? While it does cost a small fortune, it looks like a very useful tool for developing counterpoint skills both in the Bach and Palestrina styles and beyond (it doesn't seem like it's got much support for atonal counterpoint, but that's fine by me for now). Are there any other software that can do the same thing (or more), for fewer thaler?

I've been planning to buy a good digital piano for quite a while now, and since I'm just about to get a large tax refund, this is as good a time as ever. I'm not more than a decent pianist, but due to changing musical activities I'm going to give it a lot of attention in the future. My hope is to buy an instrument that I won't grow out of, but can keep for as long as it works. I just found a Yamaha CLP-340 for a very fair price, is it something a non-vituoso composer-wannabe would be satisfied with for years to come?

I think you are refering to the love duet from Tristan und Isolde, where there allegedly have been included musical representations of seven simultaneous orgasms... talking about some love, are we? :toothygrin:

Any chance for a third species thread coming soon? I'm working on these exercises myself, but it's great to have someone to correct potential mistakes for once.

I really recommend people to try this out. It's a great exercise.

Where in Norway do you live? Chances for it are slim, but I just MAY be able to point you to someone...

Please look at the files attached to this post, not the one over. Thank you. :) YC2b.sib YC2b.pdf

Okay, here's my take on it. For good measure, I gave the cantus firmus a try as the treble voice too (transposed up an octave), which let to a problem in bar 2-3: In order to prevent consecutive perfect consonanses in similiar motion, intervals over a 10th and unwanted repetitional notes at the octave jump, I found the best way around was to let the bass voice jump a fifth, from a third under to a third over the CF, thus making a smooth transition to an 8th. I'm not sure what Jeppesen says about this, but it was accepted by Fux and certainly commonplace in the Palestrina style. Furthermore, the 8-10-10-8 progression in bars 3-4 may not be the best theoretically, but I found that it sounded the best. (edit: found a small error, fixing now) YC2.pdf YC2.sib

Okay, here's my take on all the assignments. The first and second part (line one) is a Cantus Firmus taken from Jeppesen, first in the lower voice, then the upper. The third is the phrygian challenge. I chose D as the bass tone, as it's a fifth under the A. This breaks with the rule that the lower voice should always contain the root note of the mode, but in this case, following that rule would result in a fourth interval, so it's really a moot point. untitled.mid Sibelius.pdf

Okay, here's my ake on both exercises. First you have the first challenge, with a cantus firmus takes from Jeppesen. First the cf is a the bottom, then on top. After that I've included the phrygian challenge. I own Jeppesen, but I haven't read it through, so I can't tell every rule in it. However, I haven't been able to find the rule that says that the 12th cannot be exceeded. What is said, however, is that the 10th should only be exceeds "for the sake of a beautiful voice leading" (page 112). I use two 14th in my example, in the attempt to make the melody line as interesting as possible. In the bassline in my third example, note 4 bar 1 should have been a C in order to make the melody as interesting as possible, but this would leave us with a ninth interval. Other than this, I think this is done as well as I can do. Sibelius.pdf untitled.mid

[Forgot to add attachment to last post] Sibelius.pdf

Okay, I've gotten to part two of the book (three voice counterpoint), but I'm still a bit uncertain about things. On page 35, it is explained why mi (F or B) against fa (G or C) is not allowed to use. That's fair enough, because these are small seconds that weren't percieved as good sounding. However, it is also explained how you can use sharps or flats to avoid this. But wouldn't this just move the problem? If you look at the example I included, it's true, mi and fa is not used against each other, but you still have a minor second in there, this time between A and Bb. Is there any specific reason why it is these exact minor seconds that aren't allowed, while others are fine? Secondly, I've just started out on the second part, where you use the first species of counterpoint in three voices It is explained how the standard triad is considered the ideal, and why other combinations may have to be used (perfect intervals != direct motion). The book suggests that 1 3 6, 1 3 8 and 1 6 8 are accepted substitutes. However, I would presume that when writing in three parts, you have to look at the relationship between each of the voices. In this case then, 1 3 6 would contain a third and a fourth, a dissonant interval not to be used. How come it is accepted here? And why wouldn't 1 5 8, containing a fifth and a fourth be accepted then?

I am a big fan of Haydn's string quartets (at least the ones I've heard), and over time, I hope to get them all on record. I was wondering if anyone had suggestions for recordings that are particulary good. I plan to make it a mid to long term process, so it doesn't matter if you can only recommend a few. There seems to be only one complete set existing anyway, and it's gotten mixed reviews.

Apparently, Fux is very popular in school choires because his name often is mispronounced.

This is all good advice, and I shall see what I can do with it. Thanks a lot :)

There are a number of great books on orchestration out there, but does anyone here know of any book that fills the same function, enlightening the composer on the possibilities of the instrument, but for the human voice? I'm also writing a lot of popular music, so one that deals with vocal techniques within both classical and popular music would be prefered.

Now I think I get it: A D is the fifth of a G, which would imply that G would be the mode (or the tonic of the chord if we were talking about harmony). On the other hand, A is the fifth of D, making D the mode. Is this the reason?

Of course! Since Josephus' counterpoint voice is the lowest one this time, it is the one who establishes the mode, right? If the voiced switched places, so that the D would be the deeper note, and G the higher, there wouldn't be a problem, right?

Here is a transcription of the musical example (for simplicity, I notates it as quarter note). The first G in the Josephus voice was the wrong note, the the D the corrected note. I've looked over it, and I still don't "get" why the perfect fifth interval don't fit here. fux1.pdf