aphinny

Thanks for the tips. Will use.

Hi, guys. A question for trumpeters: As an arranger, I’ve heard trumpeters say that if you’re playing a flugel too loud, you’d might as well be playing a trumpet. (Even Don Sebesky, in his book The Contemporary Arranger, recommended never scoring them above mf.) Trouble is, there’s a spot in my upcoming chart where I’d really like the bugle-like sound of two Flugelhorns playing horn-like lines underneath the lead trumpet, and I’ve seen Flugelhorn parts scored forte, so here’s my question: If you came across a Flugelhorn part with lots of forte markings, would you: 1. Assume the part is badly written and disrespect the music? Or 2. Just play it forte but not necessarily “loud” like a trumpet? I just don’t want to blow out my secondary trumpeters’ lips or give them a chart they’ll disrespect. One final curiosity: -Is it harder to play Flugel loud at the very bottom of the range? I’m told there are intonation problems in the extreme low range of the Flugel, like there are in the extreme high range. How low do these problems start? Thanks.

Got it. Thanks.

Many thanks. Swell tips. Say, how would I mark the end of the "Quasi Horn" section? Just write "As Trombone" when they don't have to spread the sound anymore?

Here's a question for any trombonists: I'm trying to write a new piece where the trombones play quasi-horn under some singers. Questions: 1. As a trombonist, would you rather see "Quasi horn" in your score than have to clamp on a bucket mute? 2. If I just write "Quasi Horn," will it wind up much louder than if I write "bucket mute, N.V.?" Does the bucket really mellow the timbre that much? (This is a consideration, given the singers, and also given the desire to have a horn-like sound) 3. How do your fellow trombonists usually react when they see "quasi horn?" Just turn their bells into the stand and nix their vibrato? Or do they actually muffle their bells with their hand? I’d like to spare my players the mute but am wondering if some of them won't bother to muffle the sound. Thanks for any and all nuggets of wisdom.

Thanks. Sounds like a plan.

Question for any clarinetists: I'm writing a second clarinet part that's mostly bass clarinet, but now and then it steps back up into the higher range (Concert Eb3-Ab4, which, of course, would put it in Bb clarinet territory). If you were playing the part, would you rather I: A. Write the higher section for Bb clarinet, so you could briefly switch up to the higher instrument, or: B. Just leave the whole part on the Bass Clarinet for the higher notes? (Inquiry - How much louder is the bass clarinet than the regular clarinet in this range? Would I need to write it down a dynamic?) I've never been able to figure out which instrument bass clarinetsts prefer to play - bass or Bb. I've also wondered how hard it is to switch between them during performance. For instance, after getting used to blowing all that air, does it risk squeaking when you shift back to the Bb?

Many thanks, folks.

Question for any sax players: How many saxes, in your experience, do most of your fellow sax players play? As a composer, I've always assumed that in a jazz band (or musical theatre pit) I had to assign any soprano sax parts to the alto sax chairs, but more and more I'm hearing about tenor players who play mean soprano. Is this a growing trend? (Maybe growing enough that I could confidently assign soprano doubles to the tenor players too?) Bonus question: How much louder is a soprano sax than an oboe? I've got a reedy section coming up in a piece I'm considering, and I'm thinking of subbing the soprano sax for it, but I'm wondering if the volume differential would make it impossible for it to blend with the surrounding reeds - clarinet, flute, etc... Thanks.

Alright, guys. Has anyone here ever played both horn and flugelhorn? As a followup to my question about flugelhorns: Is the horn as hard as the flugelhorn is to keep in pitch? I'm trying to figure out if I can get away with assigning a horn line to a flugelhorn instead (for numerous reasons), or if the flugelhorn's finickyness with pitch would botch the chord tones. (Of course, if horn itself is just as hard to keep in pitch, that makes my worrying pointless.)

Many thanks.

Here's a question for any trumpeters or jazz composers: I've noticed that a bucket-muted trumpet nicely approximates the sound of a Flugelhorn (as long as the part doesn't require the bucket-muted Trumpeter to bend and weave around pitches like only a Flugelhornist can). I've also noticed that the union rates for Trumpeters who double on Flugelhorn could add up - making me wonder why on earth anyone would ever write a Trumpet/Flug double instead of just writing "to bucket mute." So I ask you: What can the Flugelhorn do for me that the bucket-muted Trumpet can't? Does the Flug really handle so much better in the lower register? (I'm often using it between F3 and C4 to mimic a French Horn.) Can it really play so much louder than the bucket-muted trumpet? And if I DO go with the Flug, should I delegate it to my second Trumpeter or my first? (Delegating it to the second would preserve the standard ranges, but it would leave my first chair silent for seriously long stretches - even for jazz.)

Useful to know. I arrived at a final decision last night: I'll simulate the second horn with a trombone on bucket mute (instead of a clarinet) except in those spots where the trombone is busy with other tasks. Then I'll use the bass clarinet to carry the second horn line, trusting in the instrumentalist to compensate (as much as you all have advised me is possible) for the lack of parity in the instruments. It'll be interesting to hear if the discrepency is even conspicuous, with all the other instruments doing their thing, but I'm reasonably confident in the solution, thanks to you guys.

Many thanks for the good tips, guys. Alright, so here's my big question: If I wanted to chuck my second horn and substitute a bass clarinet for it, could the bass clarinet harmonize smoothly [enough] with the horn on top, or would it overpower the horn at high volumes? Interesting insight, Jcramer. Since you mentioned the Bb clarinet blending less well in the lower chalmeau (something I've feared myself) is that because it sounds less sonorous down there or just because it's so quiet in that range that the horn would drown it?

Here's a question for any horn and clarinet experts: I'm fascinated by the way one horn and one bassoon harmonize to sound just like two horns. Could this also work with one horn and one bass clarinet? Or is the bass clarinet just too imposing not to dominate the horn? (Maybe requiring its part to be marked one dynamic down?) You see, I'm arranging a theatre piece that requires both woodwind players to double on alto sax, and I'm guessing I can more easily contract a good bass clarinet-alto sax doubler than a good doublereed-sax doubler. (Parenthetically, am I right about this? How much more common are bass clarinettists than bassoonists anyway?)

Ah, got it. I just have to make sure to list Tbn 2 as "Bs Tbn" and not assume the bottom chair will assume he plays bs. Thanks.

Thanks for the tip on Mahler's 4th! Will give it a close listen. As for the funding of the ensemble, your guess is as good as mine. Since the piece isn't a commission, I'm just trying to think prospectively like a conductor - would I dismiss it the second I saw it called for nonsalaried members beyond my normal ensemble? And say - since you're an accomplished trombonist yourself: When you guys play in [larger, non-chamber] brass sections, and when the piece calls for only one or two trombones, is it alright to have the first or second trombone chair playing bass trombone? Or does symphonic hierarchy dictate that only third chairs do that?

Well, the tentative instrumentation I'm wanting is 1.1.1.1 - 2.2.2.0 - Timp.Trap - Pno - Strings (min 4.4.3.3.2). My reason for wanting to augment the lower brass is just because the piece is a symphonic-jazz hybrid. It seems like it might sound a bit corny without some lower brass in a few really brassy parts (or at least some lower saxophones, but even those wouldn't quite have the thunder I'd like in the other, less jazzy moments). Truth be told, I'm trying to figure out how many bones (or perhaps saxes) I can get away with adding without a chamber orchestra conductor trashing the manuscript as unbudgetable the minute it comes across his desk for consideration. And I can't help but wonder if adding those bones might just push the power of the ensemble high enough that I could pitch the piece to both symphonic AND chamber orchestras, maximizing its production prospects. Is this too lofty a quest, you think?

(Laughs) Sorry for the confusion. Where I said "Chamber Ensemble" I really meant "Chamber Orchestra." You see, I'm trying to gauge how much I can get away with augmenting the brass section beyond the normal two trumpets and four horns those orchestras use, without making them dismiss the piece out-of-hand as too expensive to produce. (Yeah though, you're right - hearing three trombones with a chamber "ensemble" or quartet could make for some most interesting issues of balance!)

Actually, I should have said "chamber orchestra" and not chamber ensemble... Oh well... You all know what I mean. A

Hey guys: Lately I've been trying to cope with the lack of low brass in the typical chamber ensemble. Maybe some of you have dealt with that before? For instance: 1. How hesitant, in you guys' experience, are chamber ensembles just to hire two or three trombonists to augment their normal ensemble? Or would that totally throw a piece out of their normal price range? 2. Are the clarinetists and bassoonists in chamber ensembles accustomed to doubling like their symphonic counterparts? For instance, could I get that second clarinetist to pick up a bass clarinet or get the second bassoonist to pick up that contrabassoon and - don't laugh - make a sporting pass at my bass trombone line? (Okay, so that could be scary, but what about saxes?) And 3. (This really isn't a chamber question but I'll give it a whirl.) When a piece uses only two bones, is it reasonable to ask the second chair to double on bass bone? Or is that always the exclusive province of the third chair? It's just that the piece I'm planning is a chamber symphonic-jazz hybrid and, well... I'm not exactly keen on hearing a timpani bottom out my jazz block. :-) A

Thanks a ton, Jaap. As you probably predicted, that's just what I wanted to hear. Andy

Hi guys. A sincere orchestration question: I’m scoring an orchestral piece with double winds, so it can be considered by smaller symphony orchestras. However, do you think a larger symphony orchestra with full winds would disdain such a piece? I realize all orchestras encounter double winds in the old repertoire, but how would they deal with it in a new piece? Tell the third winds to sit silent? If not, what lines would the third flute, third oboe, bass clarinet & contrabassoon try to double? Many Thanks, Andrew