two fragments seeking harsh and helpful criticism

Hey,

I'm newcomer both to this forum and to composition. I've been trying for the last two months or so to get a handel on the basics of counterpoint and harmony. The thing is, I'm self-taught mostly through the internet, and not sure if what I believe is correct or if I'm applying what I think I know correctly.

These are two fragments I've written. One might be a canon and the other is potentially the exposition and first episode of a fugue.

They're probably technical monstrosities, but hell, here they are.

Much thanks for the help.

suttoncan.MID

blackberry.MID

Are you writing these as technical exercises or as something more than that?

-KRh

Ahem, I didn't try to see what was inside these .mid files (score-wise), but from what I've heard you could benefit a lot from the Lessons forum.

They're both just experiments or technical exercises.

In the first, I was trying to write a simple canon by imitating exactly the melody of a fiddle tune, Ol' Jimmy Sutton, an octave below it. I wanted to see if I could replicate the harmonic sense of the original song while doing this. I also tried to follow what I thought were some of the laws of counterpoint, like avoiding parallel 5ths and 8ths...

The second is an ill-conceived and really premature attempt at starting a fugue, using another American folksong, Blackberry Blossom, as the subject. In this doing this, I wanted to get a sense of what constitutes a fugue while continuing to learn some of the basics of composition.

I better get over to the lessons forum before I embarass myself any further.

Regardless, Thanks and Sveikas,

John

Also, if anyone knows of any books that might help me, please let me know.

If you’ve only started composing 2 months ago and have been totally self-learning I think you’ve doing very well.

That doesn’t mean that I think these piece are good, but I think they show a lot of promise. You obviously have the artistic desire and intellectual capacity to create very complex music. The only thing that’s holding you back is your lack of technical skill to put it all together coherently and smoothly.

Lessons are great, but one problem with lessons is that they often want to take you clear back to square one and teach you everything about music theory in a step-wise fashion. That’s certainly a sure-fire way to learn, no question about that. But it’s also a very long path and many people can be discouraged by that.

I’m totally new to composing myself. I am also “self-learned”, I don’t like to use the term “self-taught” because I am not “teaching” myself so much as seeking the advice of others. So I have “teachers” in a sense, they just aren’t live and in-person.

In case you’re interested there is are very nice theory lessons at 8notes (see the link in my signature) you may have already gone through that one, but if you didn’t I highly recommend going through the whole thing. It’s only something like 40 lessons long.

I also bought a 4 DVD video from The Teaching Company (it was on sale for $69, I think the normal price is something closer to $300, but it goes on sale periodically). You can Google it if you are interested. Just Google “The Teaching Company” then look up “The Fundamentals of Music”, it’s a very good course I think.

Finally, barring any lessons, I have a suggestion that might help you make large improvements quickly.

Try starting with a chord progression of your choice. The 8-notes theory site has nice lectures on how to create coherent chord progressions. They don’t merely give you chord progress to choose from, but rather they give you the theory for creating your own chord progressions that are musically coherent.

Once you have a solid chord progression, break the cords up into arpeggios, of various rhythmic beats, and timing between the individual notes. Then use that as a skeleton to weave in various melodies. This will give your overall pieces a nice sense if flow and harmony.

Once you have an idea of how to use this method, you can actually use it to paint a picture that you already have conceived in your mind. It may seem like working backwards, and perhaps it is working backwards in a ways. But if you already know what you have in mind, you should be able to create a proper chord progression that fits it like a backdrop.

You then take that simple harmonic chord progression (almost like a painter painting the background on a canvass), and then break it up into arpeggios of various rhythmic patterns that fit the music you have in your mind (sketch your “scene”), then finally add the details of melodic embellishments. The arpeggios will eventually disappear into your melodies as you change things around. But they can be a guiding factor that keep your melodies on harmonic track.

This kind of forces you into a harmonious whole that has continuity and makes sense. And the good thing about this method is that it doesn’t take years of music theory to turn out a half-decent “painting”.

I’m not suggestion this as a replacement for proper music theory, I’m just saying that it might help you to express your artistic desires more quickly for now. And it is a form of music theory actually!

I can see your desire for a level of complexity that is far beyond your technical knowledge. This is why I have suggestion this “painting” method. It might allow you to express some of your more complex ideas almost immediately without a need to spend years studying music theory. That can be discouraging for someone who just wants to “do art” right now.

I wouldn’t abandon the study of music theory though! That’s NOT what I’m suggesting.

This “painting from chord progressions and arpeggios” method may possibly help you express some of your current artistic ideas more fluently and more quickly, but it’s not going to replace the many subtle details that are addressed in music theory. Although, a study of chord progressions and arpeggios IS part of music theory anyway! So it’s not like I’m suggesting something that isn’t ultimately a part of music theory anyway.

I hope you found this helpful. I found this method to be helpful for me as a beginner. This idea helped me to improve a hundredfold overnight.