I would just like to say...

...or 50 cent has some kind of value.

Hahaha great pun! :D

So a typo is the definition of an idiot? Wow, you do have stupidly high expectations.

That isn't a typo, but a great grammatical error

Your and You're are completely different words

Please keep it civil, everyone, otherwise this thread may be closed.

There were also some postings from a user who created a new account in attempt to bypass restrictions on their original one (which were put in place due to repeat rule violations) - these have been removed, as have any posts referencing them.

:)Here is my answer to the "original" post! When it comes to valuing one form of music over another, it's all a matter of opinion. Yes it is wrong to be a "hater", but when someone feels strongly about a certain type of music, they are likely to try and promote it if they want others to appreciate it as well, we like to spread the love. I think this ability is abused sometimes and becomes a dividing line because it is used incorrectly. (i.e. blaming others for not yet "seeing the light") It is ok to promote ones music, but if the next person doesn't like it, than so be it. It's our right as human's to like what we like. Even though I personally feel that in many ways pop music, (music like 50 cent or snoop dog, or justin timberlake etc. britney spears! not saying it doesnt have its place, and at times i find some of it interesting, on the purely rythmic/timbral level) embraces the ugly side of human nature, i.e. cursing, violence, sexual vulgarity, thats just my opinion, (I also feel that one the biggest reasons people are attracted to that sort of "music" is because it has an easy visual image that one can recognize, music video, and one song is also about 3 minutes, or even shorter if you consider the exact repititions in many songs v.s. a symphony that requires Concentrated listening, (I don't mean to come off as a snob here, this is just the way I feel, please forgive me!)it is also easy to understand, comparitively to say a fugue by j.s. bach for example, or a Schoneberg 12 tone piece, or contemporary classical, its interesting as well how closely related that that music is to sex, and maybe one of the reasons classical music turns people off is because its just not flashy enough for them.. their brains literally expect to be aroused by some sort of visual image.. you cannot deny that pop music almost always has a huge emphasis on the visual, like I said with the music video etc. If people like that sort of thing, than so be it, I mean I wish they didn't or not that they didnt, but that they were able to appreciate other music as well,, but I feel as if theres nothing I can really do about it. What's "popular" is "popular". The majority of American's use music as a sexual stimulant. (sweat dropped down to my balls!) It's interesting to note that music cognition scientists such as Daniel J. Leviten have suggested that music originally may have had an evolutionary reason for existing, that tribal music, was originally used as a way of competiting for the mate, and showing off your stuff, as do birds in their mating rituals etc. Maybe pop music is more valuable than I supposed? And maybe classical music as it is today has no other purpose than that it is extremely intriguing to the human mind? In my experience, those who enjoy pop music/ rap music and the like are representative of the young/sexually active culture. Actually I think all pop music is more of a "social" phenomenon than a "musical" phenomenon, because unlike pure abstract music, it is usually about some easily descerinble topic such as love, or yo shoty its ma birthday. Let me conclude by saying that I think all music has its place, either for its pure abstract quality, or its direct social/sexual purpose. Here, I've tried to answer your question gms, hope thats enough, sorry that people are spamming your thread, although I'm afraid I got somewhat off topic, but I tried to be relevant in the beginning

Best,

Mahlon

I think it's definitely a pity to be too narrow in your view of classical, especially listening to the time period you mentioned in particular. Many of my favorite composers are from the 20th century.

Sometimes people confuse having clear, strong and consistent (musical) preferences with narrow-mindedness. Having a clear, strong and consistent set of preferences lies at the heart of developing a distinctive musical personality. The greatest composers were also very outspoken about the music they loved and about the music they hated. Of course, this trumpet player you describe seems like a rather extreme case. To hate ALL music written before 1789 and ALL music written after 1912 is absurd and foolish; there are simply too many different types and genres of music within the music written before 1789 or after 1912 so there

To hate ALL music written before 1789 and ALL music written after 1912 is absurd and foolish...

just like you hate ALL pop music? :P

However I think it

A bit off-topic, but... this thread, concerning individual taste, reminds me of a book by Stravinsky, called "The Poetics of Music". In it, he states that birdsongs are not music, as birds do not mean to create music through their warblings. How he knows this, I'm not sure. (Of course, one may observe, birdsongs are just as "natural" as the harmonic series, while not utilising it, to my knowledge.)

But isn't music really in the perception? Doesn't the listener create the music when his brain makes sense of sounds and hears them as music? This is why one cannot objectively judge, or even define music. Street sounds can be noise to one person, and music to another. Cage was right: "It's music if you think it's music!"

Ok... getting back to the dishes now......

giancula:

And yet you go back to declaring your opinion of composers. I am, honestly, eager to post count (since you have not a lot yet) and see in how many posts you bash, or declare you opinion of other composers, or otherwise belittle someone who has a name... ;)

But really, I will tend to agree and if I take into account my CD collection (which is more than 600 now), I will notice that I only have a few Bach CDs, and nothing else from Baroque. Which goes to simply say that I don't really enjoy Baroque music. And, until robin came to my life, I had NO Jazz CDs ;) But I was fortunate to meet Robin and started listening and now I'm enjoying it very much! Heck! I wrote a "jazz" piece! ;)

There are a lot of artists I vocally despise, but it's less about genre and more about their work.

Having a clear, strong and consistent set of preferences lies at the heart of developing a distinctive musical personality.The greatest composers were also very outspoken about the music they loved and about the music they hated.

Many were indeed quite outspoken about it, but most of them weren't very "clear, strong and consistent" about it, at least not when it came to their actual music. Beethoven depreciated Haydn, but who can't hear the Haydn influence in his music (well, fair enough, he was his teacher)? Schubert spoke ill of Beethoven, but at the same time admired him and drew a lot out of his work for himself. Debussy constantly railed against Wagner, but there's definitely an influence of some Wagnerian ideas in Pell

I am reminded of the words of the late Stockhausen:

I can understand your point that we shouldn't be so narrow-minded and it's okay to like other types of music, or individual pieces or songs from other genres. But why do you feel sorry for those who only like classical? There is a lot of great music from that time and if that is what makes them happy, why should you feel sorry for them?

I can understand your point that we shouldn't be so narrow-minded and it's okay to like other types of music, or individual pieces or songs from other genres. But why do you feel sorry for those who only like classical? There is a lot of great music from that time and if that is what makes them happy, why should you feel sorry for them?

You know, I really don't have an answer for that. Why do I feel sorry for them? I don't know. I guess a person could be happy eating Big Macs all the time. "Man, this Big Mac, these are the greatest food of all time!" And if they're happy, fine, but is liking one exclusive thing really conducive to healthy living?

I can understand your point that we shouldn't be so narrow-minded and it's okay to like other types of music, or individual pieces or songs from other genres. But why do you feel sorry for those who only like classical? There is a lot of great music from that time and if that is what makes them happy, why should you feel sorry for them?

Well, the topic's question wasn't classical in general, but classical from a specific time period. In answer, I feel sorry for anyone who only likes one specific type of music and can't enjoy others. It's extremely limiting to be confined to one genre or style when there are so many others out there - you're missing so much! Not to mention, listening to only one type of music can only have a disadvantageous effect on your music.

just like you hate ALL pop music? :P

There

Hmm, Stockhausen or Frank Zappa. I wonder who will stand the tests of time...something tells me it's gonna Frank. I dunno, call it a hunch.

Well, something tells me that it

So what

A nobody like you, blinded, bad musical education, fooled, those who have so sadly twisted your little mind...

Too bad that you have started to insult me personally. At least I have never personally attacked any forum user here.

it's arrogant beyond belief to think that a nobody like yourself has the balls to presume to know an "absolute truth" about music and art,

Did I ever say that I think I know the "absolute truth"? I have frequently stressed that my words are to be taken as an opinion.

You, Qccowboy, keep falsely attributing a sense of snobbiness, arrogance and self-imposed superiority to me, while I am simply stating my opinions and beliefs. That's why all discussions with you end up like this:

Gianluca: I think X is better than Y because [argument A].

Qcc: I disagree, because [counterargument B].

Gianluca: Sorry but I reject B because [argument C] so I stick to my belief that X is better than Y.

Etc.

...

Finally Qcc: What gives you the authority to decide that X is better than Y? You are snobby, closed-minded, arrogant, pretentious, etc.

Good luck in life. I hope you're well-built and strong, because with a mouth like yours, you're going to be eating a lot of knuckle sandwiches in life.

Last response from me, Gianluca is now officially on the ignore list.

I think you're overreacting, my friend. If you want to ignore me, fine. To me that would simply show your pitiful frustration with those who continue to disagree with you. If you wanted me to change my stance on certain matters, you should have come up with better counterarguments instead of this whine about my supposed arrogance and closed-mindedness.

Well, something tells me that it

Well, something tells me that it’s gonna be Karlheinz, who IMHO was by far the greater of the two, but feel free to disagree.

Honestly? I pity you. You've been blinded by a bad musical education and fooled into thinking that those opinions you so blithely spew are anything OTHER than "opinions". The musicians you've badmouthed, some of whom I have met in person or had the pleasure of studying with, are far greater musicians than those who have so sadly twisted your little mind.

Actually, no, but it's arrogant beyond belief to think that a nobody like yourself has the balls to presume to know an "absolute truth" about music and art, and to feel so confident of your own musical experience and academic credentials that you can summarily dismiss the work of so many artists.

Gianluca: I think X is better than Y because [argument A].

Qcc: I disagree, because [counterargument B].

Gianluca: Sorry but I reject B because [argument C] so I stick to my belief that X is better than Y.

Etc.

...

Finally Qcc: What gives you the authority to decide that X is better than Y? You are snobby, closed-minded, arrogant, pretentious, etc.

AW7: I think X, because of [argument A]

Qcc: No, you are wrong. [argument A] is balony.

Arrogance is not[/not] a bad thing.

I usually try to be open-minded towards other people's opinions but I'm sorry, there is just no way I can possibly empathize with that statement. Maybe you mean to say "confidence". Confidence is not a bad thing. A composer needs to have some degree of confidence in his work. If he/she can't even enjoy it, then how does he/she ever expect anyone else to enjoy it? But arrogance....no, just no.

ar

Curious...

why did you quote two things, yet talk about one?

Curious...

why did you quote two things, yet talk about one?

Sorry, my mistake. Accidentally quoted two when I only intended to talk about one. It's been fixed now. Also, sorry if I came off as a dick. I'm not usually that straight forward. :D

Sorry, my mistake. Accidentally quoted two when I only intended to talk about one. It's been fixed now. Also, sorry if I came off as a dick. I'm not usually that straight forward.

*I was perma banned three times. Still trying to get out of the third.