My Kyrie

I was reading the forums and I saw another member's Kyrie, and I've been wanting to do one for a while and he provided the inspiration for me to set my own.

This took me a few hours, and I have never written a vocal piece before and really know nothing about the voice.

Are there any mistakes in terms of vocal writing? Also, what do you think of the piece?

Thank you.

mp3

Kyrie C minor.MUS

Finale 2008 - [Kyrie C minor..pdf

what is going on in measure 6 and and the voice-leading of an augmented 4th movement to C in the alto?

In measure 14, that jump to middle C in the alto does not sit well with me. Have you tried an octave higher? It sounded better to me when I changed it.

I'm not so sure spelling out the chords melodically is such a good idea either. I don't think the singers would like and I am not sure it is very good voice leading either.

Other than that, it seemed like a good first time out. I didn't really analyze it harmonically outside of what I could hear and see right off that bat as potential areas of consideration.

I've never written vocal music, but one of my musical goals is to write a requiem and a mass, so I've seen a Kyrie or two. I think it is most important to pay attention to voice leading when dealing with the human voice because it does not have as much dexterity as all of the other instruments. In that you can't make as drastic of a change in melodic direction and leap taking as you could with say a woodwind, let alone a piano.

Did you model this off of any Kyrie in particular or was this just "free-hand"? If you are not familiar, may I suggest Faure's Kyrie from his requiem for assistance in molding your next one.

Hey Monkey,

Sorry it took me so long to get this piece. Overall I like it, some the chords really bothered me a little bit, but overall I like your approch. Some people forget that the text means, "Lord have mercy, christ have mercy." and they make their Kyries all pretty, but I think you did a nice job of of conveys the message of the text through the music. I could really feel their pain and pleading. Now about the writing,

I think you might have some trouble with that low F in the basses being forte, thats just a side note.

Like wrzawa said that chord spelling in the melodic lines is kinda annoying, but I say you are the composer and you can do whatever you want!! :P

You text has some problems, when dividing a word between notes you have to you dashes, like this: Ky-ri-e e-le-i-son. You must must must

I think overall you did a great job, considering this is your first vocal work. You didnt abuse the voice and I think it would be a nice piece to hear live.

Good Work!

Thank you guys for the reviews. I have absolutely no voice writing experience, and I tried to make it as singable as I know how. I probably wrote it too much like it was for string instruments (all I really have experience with).

wrzawa, by spelling out chords melodically do you mean the arpeggio type lines in the middle section of the piece? I rather like those myself. :)

Measure 6, I am sure is terrible voice leading in all the textbooks, but I really like that part (I like that it sounds "ugly"). Though I am sure I am the only one who does.

tenor, thank you for letting me know about the range issue, and your other helpful comments. The chords for the most part I put in because as I said earlier they are "ugly". I am hesitant about them because of that fact, but I do like them overall and hopefully they help to give the piece my personal voice( which is ugly).

I don't want to sound like I am disregarding your comments, they were very valid and helpful and I will make some changes.

Chris

Cool chromaticisms and nice disjunct harmonies.

One thing I will say though - is that in standard form, a Kyrie is three repetitions each of "Kyrie eleison," "Christe eleison," and then "Kyrie eleison" again - where this Kyrie has four.

Oh - and one other thing - in general, it's best to combine the "i" with the "le." That particular dipthong is very awkward on choirs, and by combining the two together to be "lei," you allow the choir to naturally execute the closing vowel when they move to pronounce the "s" of "son."

Hey Monkey, after your review of my Kyrie, I knew I had to take a listen at yours!

Overall I like it. You capture the mournful and penitent spirit well, which especially during the Lenten season that we are now in, is the perfect mood to project.

I sing Bass, and I assure you, I wouldn't want to attempt that Bass line. No way I could reach that low F. And I know a lot of the Sopranos in my group would be most upset for having to hit anything higher than the staff (your G and A). The altos certainly don't want to hit C above middle C for that matter either. I suggest you try to pull each of the voices back a little closer to their comfortable range. If you want the Soprano to sing so high, create two soprano lines at those parts to give the upper register more weight. You'll note I did that in my Kyrie.

I liked the augmented fourth jump in measure 6, but yeah, that's not very good voice leading, and the Altos will hate you for it. :P

Dominus vobiscum

Hey Monkey, after your review of my Kyrie, I knew I had to take a listen at yours!

Overall I like it. You capture the mournful and penitent spirit well, which especially during the Lenten season that we are now in, is the perfect mood to project.

I sing Bass, and I assure you, I wouldn't want to attempt that Bass line. No way I could reach that low F. And I know a lot of the Sopranos in my group would be most upset for having to hit anything higher than the staff (your G and A). The altos certainly don't want to hit C above middle C for that matter either. I suggest you try to pull each of the voices back a little closer to their comfortable range. If you want the Soprano to sing so high, create two soprano lines at those parts to give the upper register more weight. You'll note I did that in my Kyrie.

I liked the augmented fourth jump in measure 6, but yeah, that's not very good voice leading, and the Altos will hate you for it. :P

Dominus vobiscum

Honestly I didnt think it was that much of a stretch. I sing tenor and I can hit a Low E no prob (however quiet). A bass should be able to hit those notes, if you cant (and I mean no offense) your more of a baritone...but I do agree with splitting so the baritones have something to sing.

And a good soprano should be able to get to an A just fine, as well as Altos singing a C. True, some of them might not like it so much, but it is very doable and should still be within (or very close to) comfortable range for the great majority of them.

I sing Bass, and I assure you, I wouldn't want to attempt that Bass line. No way I could reach that low F. And I know a lot of the Sopranos in my group would be most upset for having to hit anything higher than the staff (your G and A). The altos certainly don't want to hit C above middle C for that matter either. I suggest you try to pull each of the voices back a little closer to their comfortable range. If you want the Soprano to sing so high, create two soprano lines at those parts to give the upper register more weight. You'll note I did that in my Kyrie.

wow, you have pretty limited vocal ranges in your chorus.

the choir I sang with wouldn't take any sopranos who didn't have at least a comfortable high B natural. We sang a lot of repertoire with high Cs in the soprano part.

our altos had low Fs (below the treble clef) and a G above the staff.

our tenors needed high As and Bb.

Our baritones had to go to G above the bass staff (yes, that's very high).

And our basses all needed a low E. No one was taken for the bass section if they couldn't pull one off.

These aren't particularly extreme ranges, either. This was very standard repertoire.

What I do notice about this piece, that could cause problems, is the very wide spacing between soprano and alto. In this particular case, it might be better to write it as 5-part harmony and create a bit of a filler line between those two.

I also notice some text-setting problems: "Christe" being set as 3 syllables in a couple of spots, with repeated notes....

also, some of the melodic summits seem to be uncomfortably placed on the lyrics. remember that your melodic lines must serve the words, not the other way around.

don't write a melodic line without KNOWING what lyrics are going on it.

For example, if I were setting the text "the dog plays with the ball", I probably wouldn't want to emphasize the words "the", but rather the verb, and the subject of the phrase, and the object.

There are some places where your music really goes against the words, rather than supporting them. Particularly at measure 19, the "Christe". the breaks are unnatural, and the rising phrases don't support the nature of the text.

And DO be careful about sudden wide leaps in ANY vocal part. the leaps in the soprano at the part I just mentionned are nigh impossible.

And DO be careful about sudden wide leaps in ANY vocal part. the leaps in the soprano at the part I just mentionned are nigh impossible.

...The basses, however have a lot more liberty as far as jumps go. This is because they sing so many roots and fifths. Jumps are more often than not absolutely necessary in the bass line. Because of the low register and greater size of a basses vocal chords, leaps are actually physically easier for a bass than any other part, while quick melismas (long stretches of notes being sung on the same syllable; see "For Unto us a Child is Born", Handel) are easier for higher voices with tighter vocal chords...

...just so you know :)

I'm talking about the octave + a 5th leap (or there abouts) in this particular piece. Large leaps, in any relatively rapid tempo, particularly from high to low, are difficult.

Yeah, I was just adding on a bit. Youre totally right though.

I also notice some text-setting problems: "Christe" being set as 3 syllables in a couple of spots, with repeated notes....

also, some of the melodic summits seem to be uncomfortably placed on the lyrics. remember that your melodic lines must serve the words, not the other way around.

Though it's certainly a valid effect to have a choir emphasize repeated notes on one syllable - it's not uncommon in renaissance and medieval music - though in these cases, it's done contrapuntally. Just something to think about there.

wrzawa, by spelling out chords melodically do you mean the arpeggio type lines in the middle section of the piece? I rather like those myself. :)

yeah, the arpeggio. It's cool if you like it, I was just saying that under textbook conditions it is frowned upon.

yeah, the arpeggio. It's cool if you like it, I was just saying that under textbook conditions it is frowned upon.

Thanks for letting me know.

Thank you everyone for the discussion of the ranges.

Qccowboy, your comment is very true about the text setting. I will be more careful about next time, and probably edit the piece to better fit the text.