Five Hundred Seconds Of Music And Its Purpose for Chamber Orchestra

Hello

Written back in 2002, when samples were not really what they are today (we are talking about 6 years ago), it was my first attempt at something substantial in length and orchestration. I think I did pretty well :P

The tittle says it all really. It's 513 secs of music. 9 minutes almost, which does work in the recording (since I made it work! :D)

In 4 distinct sections, each one smaller than the previous one (I believe half, but not 100% sure really) it is based in my perception of tetrachords... ;)

www.nikolas-sideris.com/AGS/500.mp3 (7.8 MB)

www.nikolas-sideris.com/AGS/500.pdf (1 MB)

Enjoy

If you feel somewhat non patient, feel free to skip to around the middle of the recording, where various things happen. ;)

Nikolas

This is strangle I left a comment here this morning then the thread disappeared.

Anyway I enjoy listening to this work, and I had it over 1 hour on today and now is on again. :D

Heh.

This happened because you managed to see the thread before it got moderated... Your commen is still intact, but hidden.

Good work' date=' I love this.

I think I have over 1 hour listening to it.[/quote']

Thank you for the comments. :)

Nikolas

your music always amazes me. you seem to grasp the emotial side of music in a twisted bare way in this piece. ive listened to this now about 4 times and have yet to really know what to comment on other then that ive enjoyed it everytime lol. btw, what the hell is a tetrachord??

Thanks buddy! :)

I'm not sure if tetrachord is the right word, but I've decided to "divide" the 12 pitches, into 3 groups (4 notes each group). If you notice at bar 88 for example, I'm only using C, C#, D and Eb. And so on.

I can't say I remember what are the 3 groups, but I believe I used 2 different sets of groups in organising the whole thing, and it is obvious on the first part (the slow part) which each group is (the 3 notes from the chord F#B F and... another one ;))

hmm, i think i get it, interesting, i must learn i must learn i must *slap* will learn more about them :whistling:

Sorry for bumping this, but: Tetrachord - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And yes, tetra: 4 in Greek and chord: string in greek. ;)

How did I miss this?

Very interesting stuff...reminds me of The Chamber by HymnSpace. I especially liked the rhythmic touches, in particular what the percussion parts got up to. I'm guessing the work would sound a lot more gripping if performed live than in this synthesised rendition.

Thanks for sharing - I often wonder how much of your back catalogue remains to be heard. ;)

Reminds me kind of Gershwin for some reason, don't know why... Very Cage-ish, which I love. :)

Thanks Mike! :) Yes! How did you miss this? Not even reviewed by you. haha!

I wish it would get performed, but it's such an old work, so I'm trying to write new ones and find chances of live performances. It's counterproductive to promote your old works, you see... And yes, I do have a few more left, to be seen later on... Around 3 hours of music in the past 2 years! :D

amadeus2726686: Thank you. Don't know about Gershwin or Cage, I can't see an resemblance, but thanks for enjoying it, never the less.

Woah! I am impressed ... scrap that I am in awe!

I have only listened to the recording - will check out the score at some point to understand certain parts.

I am interested to know what your university thinks of this if they have ever heard it and also what the long winded story and idea behind this piece is.

Thank you!

I like to be an open book. I know that you're interested in a Masters degree so here goes:

The story: There isn't anything in particular behind this thing, but it was written in 2002 (I came to the UK for my MMus in 2004, mind you). I had started counterpoint lessons, and of course had an interest in composition as well as 20th century techniques. At that time I wanted to go to France to study at the conservatoire superior de musique et de danse de Paris(!) (hellishly difficult to enter and I failed twice). One of the examination topics was orchestration to a large chamber ensemble, such as the one I used here. So I thought I should write something in order to practice.

One influence, for the middle (fast) part, is a theatrical group called "Hollandia", who have writen some excellent music for their acts!

Anyways, once it was done, I just decided that it was too good to let it be only on paper, so I went to a studio, stayed there 2-3 weeks and finished this whole thing. I was completely ignorant to samples back then...

Then I went into the army, composed "Obscene Obsession" (also posted in this forum) and went to record that as well. Those 2 pieces, along with a solo piano and a piano + prerecorded music were the 4 works I used for the entry requirements in the UK.

At first I tried Trinidy, Guildhall, RAM and a couple more. Trinidy and those 2 others just took me (for Bachelors), Guildhall I didn't actually show up at the exams and RAM didn't take me for Bachelors! A few months later I decided to apply for a MMus, straight away, without an undegraduate degree. At Manchester, Birmingham, Royal Holloway and King's college. Manchester said yes with no interview. Royal Holloway said yes with an interview (and went there, this is where I am now), King's College, after an interview said no and Birmingham said no straight away, since I didn't have an undergraduate degree (pretty fair if you ask me).

Because of the piano and the prerecorded music (continuity, also posed here) and the "Obscene Obsession", actually nobody even asked a single question about this piece! They simply didn't have enough time to look at it, or spend time in the interview, or whatever... I guess 4 works was 1 too many... ;)

Thanks for the interest. :)

Nikolas,

I'm curious if the crescendo to nothing which ends the piece can be interpreted in light of the title of the work. "Five hundred seconds of music and ["then," perhaps?] its purpose." Am I perhaps right in thinking, therefore, that part of the piece's intent is to build anticipation and then rob the listener at the end, implying "there IS NO purpose?"

I'm not endeavoring to imply that there'd be anything right or wrong with such a goal; just wondering if my (admittedly surface, for I only listened to parts, as you suggested) evaluation might be somewhat correct.

Brooks

bpopw750: Oh man! Totally forgot about this! I know that I PMed you, but heck, forgot to make it public! :)

The "purpose", is the last few seconds, the last page. Somehow the timing of that theme (which appears 4 times) reaches the timing of the 4 different "movements" thus at last it can be Edeveloped" "properly" (for one single page) and then end the piece, with something which does appear new and was not used t othe developement of the score at all!

The theme first appears in bar 9, by the French Horn, then bar 27, F Hrn again, I have no idea where the 3rd instance is :D and the 4th is the last page, which is (at least) slighly orchestrated.

So the whole purpose of this piece is to make these 2 parts (theme and movements) find their way together...

Hope it makes a bit of sense...

Nicola: Since you explained your opinion very well, it certainly is your place. ;) No worries man! Public means public. I wouldn't like someone coming and mentioning "it sucks" and nothing else, ala myspace, or deviant, but you took your time to listen, to read, and to post, so I'm thankful. :)

I will agree really really really with you. It is exactly that. For the first movement. It's slow, it's dead boring for me (nothing happening pretty much). When the fast part enteres, there is indeed a theme, and a countertheme, and a stretto later on... there is definately something going on there. And from there on there is melodic movement as well.

so it's a very unbalanced piece with 2/3rds of the piece being dead boring and undeveloped and the rest trying to give a bit of excuse of the first 2/3rds! Don't think it succeeds, but anyhow it was writen quite a few years ago, so it's ok I guess. My excuse!

Woah! That's a really cool piece! Very atmospheric and quite mysterious. I like it a lot.

However, I would have to disagree with you on development. While yes, it could have used quite a bit more, I could detect a couple of motifs running throughout the piece, mostly involving semitones and tones. For example, the horn motif in bar 9 did recur in various forms throughout the piece. I know it's not exactly brilliant development and there were a few ideas that kind of just stood there and didn't do anything, and I will agree that not a lot happened in the slow section, but I think you're being a little too hard on yourself.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

Oh thanks :)

Yes, I did try that, but still after a lot of year (remember this was composed quite a few years ago), I do reserve the right to feel bad (or maybe that I would change a few things). :)

But really, thanks :)

Repeating everyone, this is a great, mysterious and atmospheric piece. This is certainly my poison!

I followed it with the score and I enjoyed the effects you created.

I have to say I loved the beginning. It felt like something was lurking.

Furthermore, I hated the ending. It was too abrupt.

Cheers, Nikola!

Nope!

Manos is Greek and when you call somebody in Greek you take out the last s...

So Manos becomes "cheers Mano" and simmilarly Nikolas becomes "cheers nikola" ;)

I'm digging this. I like the lack of movement and overall slowness. There's a very 60ish character here, certainly, with sounds picked very specifically and put almost isolated from the whole. With that said, I think the strings and the overall structure based on textures (something like Penderecki used to do) work pretty well. The part with the percussion and the quick movement in the winds, etc, can sound a little "Well let's do something different!", but it is a little refreshing. Though I personally would've enjoyed the stillness until the end.

I see some Bartok influence near the end, with the quasi-counterpoint between the instruments. Overall, I'm pretty OK with the ending, and you didn't go for a bow form or any of that so that's also cool to me.

As far as the score and such, I'm not going to say much since it seems clean and I assume it's all properly notated and such.

You could've said a lot more about it, as is usually the case in this forum people don't talk enough about the piece themselves. But oh well.

Other than this, good work, I liked it.

Hi SSc. Thanks for listening and posting.

Glad you liked it. :)

You could've said a lot more about it, as is usually the case in this forum people don't talk enough about the piece themselves. But oh well.

Oh, but I'm usually an open book. In other pieces (exeliksis) I've also posted an analysis of the piece, and after that a review of it... :)

What would you like to know and I hope to answer it, although I've said a lot of things already about the piece, haven't I? (not the very first post, later on).

Really I'm not sure there's much else to say from my behalf, unless you want to ask further questions, to which I'm free and glad to reply to. :)

Really I'm not sure there's much else to say from my behalf, unless you want to ask further questions, to which I'm free and glad to reply to. :)

Well, I'm curious as to how you came up with the structure and how big a role did the system you used to organize your tone material play in contrast to your intuition as a composer. You talked about a scheme of breaking up the 12 tones into groups, and such. Did this have an influence on the overall structure too, or just the tone material?

Plenty of things to ask~

I very usually put structure and form first, as a primary work that needs to be done. This is how I work in many cases.

In this case, the first thing that came to mind was the tetrachords. Then I started with the chords (the 2nd page, the slow part) and after I was done, I thought that I could actually repeat the same process at half time, and then half time again and again. So if you notice first the chords are in the woods, then the strings, and then there is a small mirrored 2 page part. This is repeated as a main process in the 2nd movement (the fast). First the woods have the theme, then the strings and then there is the mirror. 3rd movement (again slow) is pretty much the same things, at half speed. 4th 'movement' is the "resolution" sort of speak.

In order for the other "theme" to work it's way and meet with the form at the 4th 'movement' I went backwards and placed it in the last page, then half back and half back, etc until I reched bar 35, or something.

The number 4 did play a part in the whole thing. 4 movements, tetrachords, 4 sections in each movements. But not much else really, no.

This is actually a very organised and guided piece. Once I got started I finished rather soon, because the form was repeating itself and I "had" to follow the structure. So once I got the idea of the chords, then the chrods in the strings, etc, next thing was already laid out. The "theme" of the 2nd "movement" (fast) is created by all possible variations of the 4 notes of the tetrachord. 1234, 3241, 1324, 1423, etc... Then it's a kind of fugato.

So my intuition as a composer is pretty absent. I didn't change anything after I was done and I do find this rather "wrong", as it is a work that could be presented even by a robot, or computer, with the minimum of input.

I think that I almost overanalysed this work! :D

Could one say this is a serialist piece? From the point of structure and work with the organization elements, it seems not exactly serialist as in rows and such, but you did create a system which wrote it and you just followed it to a conclusion.

Did the system you create influence also dynamic markings, accents, etc etc? The other musical parameters, rhythm for example?

Not really, it's too free to be a serialist piece, although I'm almost flatered, since at the time I knew pretty much nothing about 12 tone, let alone serialism. And there was nothing to influence rhythms and stuff. Apart from the very very basic place of the 2nd "theme" (the F. Hrn.) which was placed there to meet at the end, nothing else. The first chords which last as long, do so, because... they can hold their breath for so long! :D:D

But yes, the system did lead me greatly to a conclusion with minimum of input by me, I said that... Especially the flow movement was done in a single day or so. Second movement took a bit longer to complete, etc. There is a bit of counterpoint, and a streto (the strings in the middle, fast section, which again is pretty mechanic. Entrance point and put it together), etc.

I do like(d) working with systems. It gives you straight guidelines on what to do, etc. If the system is good, it could also work as a listening experience. This does not always happen however...

everything your compose . i already downloaded it

i am your fans for now

darkprincess