Collaborative Opera Project?

Am I allowed to post in here?

Anyways, I'm just offering feedback to xiiii. I don't really understand, put lyrics please!

He's not a lyricist, my student.. haha.

Wow, guys. Applause on the initiative, and everything - but since I know a little something about writing operas...

Almost-always-rule #1: LYRICS FIRST!

An opera is a fusion of textual, dramatic, and musical themes. Just as any good play contains thematic material in the text, so does an opera. It is necessary to link your musical themes with your textual themes in order to SYNTHESIZE the dramatic themes. The reason why "lyrics first" is an almost-always-rule is that it is possible to dictate the libretto by the use of musical themes. However, this often ends up with the connection between libretto and music being weak at best, and quite often completely incoherent.

Incidentally, one way of getting around this is to use the Wagner method - create leitmotifs which can be attached to almost any text setting by simple rhythmic or orchestral alteration. This can be done before, during, or after the libretto is written, depending on how closely you want them to be associated with a certain textual idea.

The dramatic themes are a little more ineffable. They are certainly present in the underlying narrative (or not-narrative, if you choose to go that way), but it takes the words, the music, AND the stage direction to fully flesh them out.

Even if you build the libretto scene by scene, it will make your job easier, and your opera more cohesive, if you have the text finished before you begin a given set of music.

Wow, guys. Applause on the initiative, and everything - but since I know a little something about writing operas...

Almost-always-rule #1: LYRICS FIRST!

An opera is a fusion of textual, dramatic, and musical themes. Just as any good play contains thematic material in the text, so does an opera. It is necessary to link your musical themes with your textual themes in order to SYNTHESIZE the dramatic themes. The reason why "lyrics first" is an almost-always-rule is that it is possible to dictate the libretto by the use of musical themes. However, this often ends up with the connection between libretto and music being weak at best, and quite often completely incoherent.

Incidentally, one way of getting around this is to use the Wagner method - create leitmotifs which can be attached to almost any text setting by simple rhythmic or orchestral alteration. This can be done before, during, or after the libretto is written, depending on how closely you want them to be associated with a certain textual idea.

The dramatic themes are a little more ineffable. They are certainly present in the underlying narrative (or not-narrative, if you choose to go that way), but it takes the words, the music, AND the stage direction to fully flesh them out.

Even if you build the libretto scene by scene, it will make your job easier, and your opera more cohesive, if you have the text finished before you begin a given set of music.

Agreed.

I wrote what I've done so far around the libretto; I hadn't embedded the lyrics in it yet, though.

My previous links now point to a copy with lyrics included; if I've made any mistakes, please tell me.

I wrote what I've done so far around the libretto; I hadn't embedded the lyrics in it yet, though.

My previous links now point to a copy with lyrics included; if I've made any mistakes, please tell me.

Ah - I didn't realize there was a libretto. There's none posted in the thread (which y'all might think about doing, actually). (EDIT: WOW I need to read more carefully; found the posted libretto. However, I still think that having multiple sections of libretto posted at a time is a good thing - it allows you to reference earlier and later scenes to create a concrete picture.)

I saw the music file. It looks like a compelling melody and a good structure. However - that poor tenor is going to die from the profusion of F's. Tranposing the whole thing a M2 (or even a m2) will A) keep it from sitting so much in the passaggio and B) give you a little more space above the current top-of-range to lead up to some kick-donkey high notes.

Oh, also - the ranges posted up previously are erroneous (at least for solo voice), and they lack tessitura (that is, the area that said voice parts are most comfortable, in general).

SOPRANO: Range - C4 (middle C) to C6; Tessitura - F4 to F5.

MEZZO: Range - G3 to Bb5; Tessitura - D4 - D5

CONTRALTO: Range - Eb3 to Eb5; Tessitura - Bb3 - Bb4

COUNTERTENOR: Range - B2 - B5; Tessitura - D4 - D5

TENOR: Range - C3 to Bb4; Tessitura - Eb3 - Eb4

BARITONE: Range G2 to F#4; Tessitura - D3 - D4

BASS: Range D2 to Eb4; Tessitura - B2 - B3

Of course, there's nothing to say you can't break these guidelines - but the result will be fewer singers willing/able to perform your work.

Ah - I didn't realize there was a libretto. There's none posted in the thread (which y'all might think about doing, actually). (EDIT: WOW I need to read more carefully; found the posted libretto. However, I still think that having multiple sections of libretto posted at a time is a good thing - it allows you to reference earlier and later scenes to create a concrete picture.)

I saw the music file. It looks like a compelling melody and a good structure. However - that poor tenor is going to die from the profusion of F's. Tranposing the whole thing a M2 (or even a m2) will A) keep it from sitting so much in the passaggio and B) give you a little more space above the current top-of-range to lead up to some kick-donkey high notes.

???

Tenors should be able to hit Fs constantly for a VERY long time. I am a Baritone and I can sing Fs all day. haha.

I agree with Morv here. I'm a true tenor, and my pasagio isn't until a G or G# at least. F's are easy without warming up. At least for me, but I think that's normal.

Also, I think the key of A minor is one of the best possible for a tenor aria if you want "kick-donkey high notes". It allows the octave, and even the 3rd, while remaining in standard, operatic tenor range.

That being said. I think this early in the opera, especially on such a pensive song, there's no need for such a high register throughout. The song can sit a lot lower and be just a powerful and invoking, with focus on the lyrics to describe just where our (hero?) is to open the story. Just a thought.

I agree with Morv here. I'm a true tenor, and my pasagio isn't until a G or G# at least. F's are easy without warming up. At least for me, but I think that's normal.

Also, I think the key of A minor is one of the best possible for a tenor aria if you want "kick-donkey high notes". It allows the octave, and even the 3rd, while remaining in standard, operatic tenor range.

That being said. I think this early in the opera, especially on such a pensive song, there's no need for such a high register throughout. The song can sit a lot lower and be just a powerful and invoking, with focus on the lyrics to describe just where our (hero?) is to open the story. Just a thought.

NICKNAMES!!! So, I have to agree with BWAY here... I think the song could sit much better in a lower register.

Oh dear, what have I done..

I had some more inspiration and sketched some more of the first aria (until "FLINT starts pacing, mind running wild."). It's too sketchy for me to post now, and I'm too tired to write it out properly, so I'll finish it tomorrow.

What I wanted to ask (and why it's too sketchy to post now) is about mixed meter. I know mixed meter is not a problem for instrumental ensembles, but are there any special issues I should take into consideration when writing in mixed meter for an operatic ensemble (there's a little mixed meter in the first aria)?

Writing it in a lower key is fine with me. I'm not a tenor, so you guys should decide what would best.

No problem with mixed meters. If the lyrics are set correctly, as to where you want the emphases, it's just as easy for vocalists to read/sing as it is for instruments.

I meant that in more of an "orchestra and solo singer staying together" sort of way (if that makes any sense). Sorry, I should have been more clear. (Or is that how you meant it? :hmmm:)

I agree with Morv here. I'm a true tenor, and my pasagio isn't until a G or G# at least. F's are easy without warming up. At least for me, but I think that's normal.

A normal operatic tenor primo passagio begins at circa 300 Hz - that's Eb or so - and goes through F or F#. Certainly there are exceptions to every average - and that range/tessitura stuff does change with stylistic alteration of vocal production (like for musical theater versus opera), but I do know what I'm talking about in this case. Not only was the information given me by various voice teachers of Oberlin's opera program, but it also bears out in my own experience, and in the experiences of the other tenors I have worked with on my own operas and others.

You have your sources, I have mine. I just don't cite them the same way. I don't want a fight, I agreed with you, it's too high. However, I don't believe a true tenor would ever have any problem with F naturals. Even if it is in the passagio, this is opera we're speaking of. Any tenor willing to sing opera isn't going to complain about F's, when they know C's and D's are expected of them. And on the same page, if we ever want this performed, are we ok with a tenor who would complain about repetitive F's? I don't at all claim that you don't know what you're talking about. I more than trust your experienced opinion, but part of learning to sing, is learning to sing in the passagio, with ease, seamlessly, forever. Certain songs are even written almost entirely in the Eb-Gb range. I think of "Un Aura Amorosa" from 'L'elisir d'Amore', the entire song sits between D and A. An exception, I know, but nonetheless. Let's just write the opera, there are people who can sing it, flawlessly, without us going to the trouble of making it cookie-cutter, or else there will always be something we have to remain aware of that will keep us from progressing.

On another, more general note, I've started working on scene 2 Libretto, if no one else has already begun. Im still trying to get accustomed to the speech patterns and dialect of our already completed scene 1, so that it will sound the same, linguistically, as well as accustom myself with the characters. I'll keep everyone posted.

I've done some more and updated the previously seen links. They're below for easy reference. There's a little mixed meter, check it out.

Oh, and vocalists tell me about breathing. Is this too difficult to sing (in terms of breathing)? I found it a little challenging, but I don't really sing.

MusicXML Copy

Finale 2009 Copy

It looks pretty easily singable as far as breathing goes. Unless you want specific lengths, there are obvious places where one would breathe. At this tempo, it would be difficult to do entire phrases in one breath. But it's very singable.

I think that maybe the last quarter note in mm. 22 is not necessary. That is, the reinstatement of the C# and the motion before the jump back up, I don't think any of which are necessary, depending on your mindset. I think it'd be better to just leave that 4th beat as a rest, or just cut the the 4th beat and make it a 3/4 measure. I only say that because that's the end of a phrase, and therefore, a natural place to breathe before "Gold...". But with the C#, it suggests carrying the phrase and allowing the C# to drive into the next phrase. If that was your intent, then it can work, but breath marks will be needed specifically before or after this point.

I am working on accompaniment.

I am working on accompaniment.

Good.

Hello,

Wow I read all the thread and I learned a lot of things, thanks and I hope this project will go far, I'll follow the development;)

This looks like a really exciting project, and I'd love to contribute something to it. While I'd love to compose something, it seems like you have all the composers you need, so instead, I was wondering if you'd like me to do some set designs. Costumes too if you want but I'm better at sets :P

So... what happened to this?

It looks like it's been abandoned. If you're still interested in doing this, why not create a new thread and start over fresh?

I would love to be a part of this if we were starting it again.