Concerto for Harp and Koto.

Hey hey,

This is the 2nd movement of a concerto I have been working on. The concerto is for a harp and koto (japanese style harp).

Please note that I don't actually know how to write for harp or koto, this started as more of an experiment for my program. So please keep that in mind when listening to it

I have been given some comments from friends and teachers, but any comments, advice etc is very welcome :)

Anyways I hope you enjoy it

Concerto for Harp and Koto - 2nd Movt ''Largo e Appassionato'' (Romanze)..mid

while I think about it, sorry if the sound quality is not that good. my program is not the best.

First off, I don't know anything about the Koto. So I don't know how well the concept would work. But, since you claim that you don't know how to compose for the Koto as well, I think it would be wise to so some indepth study and research. http://www.kotonokoto.org/about.html

I will say the same about the Harp as well. Do some research on the instrument. There are some issues and challenges with the harp that you will need to always keep in mind specifically when working with various keys for the harp and the pedals. Besides you will want to know how to get the best out of both instruments (on your composition level) is you are composing for them.

Harp Spectrum

I like the theme of this movement and I think you could do more as far as variation the theme and development as well as thinking about the form. But, I feel that you should take care of your Koto and Harp understanding first. :)

I am sorry to say that I won't listen to this piece.

It's a shame when you describe the "koto" as a "japanese style harp", and it's even worse when you write for the harp and koto when you don't know how to write for these instruments. Why don't you know how to write for these instruments? And if you don't know how to write for the harp and koto, then what makes you think you can write for any of the other orchestral instruments?

Since you wanted to write for the harp or koto, you should have done some research on the instruments before, see their use in other pieces, find out their range, their construction, how they are played, what kind of idiomatic techniques/notations exist, listen to different pieces involving the koto and the harp by different performers to get an idea of how they sound like, and above all, at least learn a bit more about the history of japanese music and the use of the koto in Japan (books on orchestration may be helpful with this kind of stuff).

So, I am afraid I can't bother to listen to a piece by a composer who hasn't bothered doing these least things to write properly for the instruments.

What's more, you only provide a midi file of your score and not the score itself.

Sorry if I can't be of any more help :)

ROAR. Koto is NOT harp. It's a ZITHER. And it's also a PENTATONIC instrument. You need to know the differences between the two and MIXING western with eastern instruments is BRUTALLY difficult to pull off ESPECIALLY if you don't know how to.

I FURIOUSLY vote against this idea. I will not NOT NOT NOT listen to this. Godspeed though.

Oh yeah, another note, each pentatonic instrument is tuned different therefore you have to learn EVERYTHING about the instrument. Now if you were a virtuoso in both eastern and western music that'd be a different story.

Well good luck even though I don't approve.

Anyone else see the title for this and think, "That's a lot of plucking music!"

To start, I already stated that I wasnt writing it professionally, I was writing it as a bit of fun. If I was to write a proper piece that I might even think about getting performed I would of course research it.

If you don't want to listen to it the DON'T. I have nothing against getting negative comments about the composition itself, that helps improve it. But don't give me negative details about somthing I already know, espesially if you don't listen to it.

Secondly, I used the term "japanese harp" because it's easier to decribe it that way to people who have no idea about what a koto is. Also the Japanese describe the koto as a "Stringed harp-like instrument."

I'm sorry you don't approve. But composers throughout the eras have done things that have been unorthodox (I'm not comparing myself to them, I'm nothin of a composer) like Debussy using gamalans (if thats how its spelled), Beethoven with the choral, Berlioz with guns.

Next, If I don't to provide a score, I don't have to. I have seen many threads on here with just midi files.

Ending here, Majesty, thanks for those sites, were/are a big help if I want to write properly for them. cheers

My goodness. The daggers certainly come out quickly on this forum !!

I'm not so sure I want to post anything here as a newbie.

Its a valid piece of music, Lex. To my ears anyway. The inspiration to create is important.

The details (as described above) can be sorted out later. Its not such a big deal.

hey mdharp

sorry if that was a bit snappy, just not in the best mood that day I think.

Thanks for those words, just the thing I needed at this time

Lex

P.S. welcome to YC

It's basically a wall of sound. That's it. It doesn't sound good. It's cliche. Boring. Overall, if you plan to post something, put some time and effort into it please.

Tips-

Silence is important

Playing all instrument at once is tiresome.

Nothing special about going up and down the scale

Think of a more original idea for your theme.

Your ideas don't connect well, fix it.

It's obvious you don't know how to write for the instruments. I found it hard to believe it was a concerto. It's more like a typical orchestra piece featuring a harp and koto.

You did a bad job at mixing eastern and western music.

just because the piece has zero performance value doesn't make the composition, the writing that goes into it, null and void...anything you can write is good practice

I wouldn't say anything.

Thoughtless music does not equal good practice. Using bad habits and techniques does not equal good practice.

I don't want to make this a debate, but I have to side with Mr Lex. The piece has met unreasonably sharp criticism, especially from Kije and Jujimufu.

Kije-you don't even address the music itself; rather, you just state how you refuse to listen to it. That's fine if you don't want to listen to it, but I don't exactly go around posting and saying that I won't listen to someone's piece. Even so, what you criticised was already covered by two previous posters, so your post really has no value, to be honest.

Jujimufu-Again, you don't address the music itself. And I think it's rather naive to say that you "can't bother to listen to a piece by a composer who hasn't bothered doing these least things to write properly for the instruments."

-In a recent upload of your's (http://www.youngcomposers.com/forum/piano-concertino-capriccio-young-jazzist-7245.html), Qccowboy points out that you wrote improperly for the flutes (below their range). Clearly, that's something that you should've learned through research, if you didn't know how to write for the instrument.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't write for flutes now, but not only are you being a hypocrite, you are being too critical and not giving the composer the benefit of the doubt.

But as for the music, I'll have to agree with DOFTS. I think your piece just need more thought put into it, based on your solo instruments. Like D. says, it just sounds like anorchestra piece with added harp and koto. Also, do you have any other movements completed yet? And what is the overall idea of the whole concerto: is it a showpiece, or tone painting, etc. (both are fine)?

This piece may not have much practical value, but I would just like to say that for a composer who seems someone unsure of yourself, you have written a pretty sound piece here with some nice moments. I think the opening theme (for example) is quite attractive.

Just adding some positive energy to this thread.

I wouldn't say anything.

Thoughtless music does not equal good practice. Using bad habits and techniques does not equal good practice.

that's a bunch of academic bullshit.

essentially he's writing for his preferred playback sound, which is no different than writing for a any other synthesized one, be it a violin, glass harmonica, saw synth, etc. there's no need for such a pessimist attacks on someone's private art, if he wants to write for himself only so be it.

hey mdharp

sorry if that was a bit snappy, just not in the best mood that day I think.

Thanks for those words, just the thing I needed at this time

Lex

P.S. welcome to YC

Hi Mr Lex. I think you had some right to be snappy. I was more concerned with the lack of human kindness & thought in a few of the responses you had to your piece.

They could take a minute to settle down & think before responding from a neurotic knee jerk reaction.

Once again, its most important that we keep on creating & inspiring, not dragging each other down. Keep me informed of any updates, new pieces etc.

Good luck !!

I would like to thank all those that have commented, I was starting to fear that too many people on this site were too interested in the extreme academic requirements of writing and not so interested in the joy of just creating music because you want to. I admit its not that good, I never expected to be, its just what I felt at the time.

I have read through all remarks, comments, advice etc... and taken in the things said about the composition that I'd never noticed before, probably because it was my own work.

I have started to change a few things both with this movement and the others.

Cheers,

Lex.

that's a bunch of academic bullshit.

essentially he's writing for his preferred playback sound, which is no different than writing for a any other synthesized one, be it a violin, glass harmonica, saw synth, etc. there's no need for such a pessimist attacks on someone's private art, if he wants to write for himself only so be it.

If he is writing for himself, why post it on a forum to be critically reviewed? I take the assumption that he wants to improve his works, he wants to become better to one aspect of being a better is learning. Your attitude is not helpful.

not reflective of my attitude, it's a frank statement...for his music to be shot down the way it has without being listened to, that's an uneeded attitude. if he doesn't care for his orchestration you can at least judge it as notes written on a staff

I understand why they choose not to listen to it. I don't agree why they decided to make a little rant about it though.

This is the way I see it:

If he really wanted to compose serious music, he would have taken time to learn about the instruments. Writing nonchalant and expecting people here to listen to it on a purely musical level is not going to happen. It's the nature of this site. There are many aspects to writing music, and one of them is knowing how to use your instruments properly. While I listen to his piece (before I read his reviews), I knew he had no idea how to use ANY of his instruments. He would, undoubtedly, improve if he knew how to his tools to their potential.

I can agree that the rant presented by the first two reviewers was lame and unneeded, but nevertheless they are correct. I just wish they would have also commented on other aspects too.

I know he was mostly experimenting with his program, but it doesn't justify sloppy habits. He obviously thought he made something worth listening to, or he wouldn't have posted it. If he thought otherwise, he purposely wasted our time.

I do of course want to improve...there is no way that I could improve without the remarks that have been stated.

Its hard to explain but I was both writing for my own taste and yet I wanted it critiqued, but I guess those 2 don't really go hand in hand.

In the future I do really want to write serious music, just at the time I wasn't really that interested in creating a strict piece so to speak, and as said, it was an experiment. BUT I do understand what DOFTS has said, it doens't justify sloppy habits.

Having said that, if anyone has any tips or places I can go, books I can read etc...to improve my orchestration and general music composition, please please please let me know or send a message or something :)

cheers,

Lex

cheers,

I figured the term ''masterclass'' referred to already good composers (unlike myself)

I shall have a looksy :)

After having listened to this piece and looked at the score i can find nothing particularly wrong with either the orchestration or the handling of the material. For a slow middle movement it is fine- generally atmospheric in its user of the pentatonic scale. Although it does seem a bit monothematic I think this is partly the character of koto music and pentatonic music in general and as the movement only lasts for 3 1/2 minutes it probably recognises its own limitation. There are a few unusual things in the use of instruments but you don't learn if you don't try.

Further to the above post, after having read some of the other comments about this piece, I am reminded by many of them of the saying about empty vessels. I only added this because i am sure Mr Lex is too polite to do so.