New music should be innovative!

I have seen far too many blatantly diatonic pieces on this website- I mean... minimalism was innovative, but the majority of these pieces are so tonal and so rhythmically boring, I want to rip my hair out of my head. I use tonality all the time, but come on, people on this website are either just writing chords in on Finale and using playback, or simply are ok with being boring.

Excuse the rant.

(no malintent)

This flamebait or what?

Seriously, what's your point?

Bajamba

And, also: Bajamba.2

Ah, blatant, shameless advertising...

Yes, because atonality is so new and innovative...

Yes, because atonality is so new and innovative...

I am not insinuating that atonality is exclusively the only way to be innovative. In fact, I think you can be just as creative when composing a tonal piece. Anyways, like I said some music on this site is just too diatonic. If I hear one more ii IV V I (most composers on this website aren't even creative enough to do that- most just do V I) progressions, I'm going to rip my hair out... and its not just the fact that composers these days are using these stereotypical, common practice progressions, its just that they do it in such a bland, unoriginal way.

This flamebait or what?

Seriously, what's your point?

Yes this is a flamebait! I'm just concerned with the state of new music. Now, I'm fine if new music is tonal, atonal, or whatever... I just want it to be original- considering all the fundamentals of music when composing for music (and doing so intelligently) because I've only seen a few pieces on this website that emulate these important characteristics.

Yes, because atonality is so new and innovative...

.... oh, and I love how you suggest that one type of music is exclusively innovative! Funny, funny...

lame thread

I don't think you would have taken the time to contribute to a thread if you really thought it was so lame...

Yes this is a flamebait! I'm just concerned with the state of new music. Now, I'm fine if new music is tonal, atonal, or whatever... I just want it to be original- considering all the fundamentals of music when composing for music (and doing so intelligently) because I've only seen a few pieces on this website that emulate these important characteristics.

Making music that's truly original isn't quite as easy as you seem to be implying...

I agree that music ought to not be bland or derivative, but we live in a post-postmodern world where just about everything that can be done has already been done.

If you have any specific ideas for truly original and innovative music, please don't hesitate to let me know.

.... oh, and I love how you suggest that one type of music is exclusively innovative! Funny, funny...

Huh?

Really lame thread.

... you think its so lame, you'll comment twice (you even took the time to use itallics). Corbin, you must really like really lame things.

Making music that's truly original isn't quite as easy as you seem to be implying...

I agree that music ought to not be bland or derivative, but we live in a post-postmodern world where just about everything that can be done has already been done.

If you have any specific ideas for truly original and innovative music, please don't hesitate to let me know.

I'm not implying creating original music is easy. Of course, I'm not perfect, as my music often emulates that of other composers and sometimes is just plain bad, but I don't believe microtonality, alternative tuning systems (i.e. just intonation, 15-note), and timbral manipulation have been mastered. Of course there are always new ways to be innovative. Whether you have to create a new form, or procedure, I know people can still be innovative! Igor Stravinsky in the 70s (when many alternative tuning systems were being experimented with) said that there would be new and innovative things to do with our 12-tone system for a long time.

I tend to agree with Corbin. This is pretty lame.

Why do you feel everything must be innovative? What IS originality? Is it even possible this day-in-age?

You (ELS) aren't giving any reasons for your assertion - you're just scalloping because most folks around here write in more traditional tonal styles.

What's your point?

I tend to agree with Corbin. This is pretty lame.

Why do you feel everything must be innovative? What IS originality? Is it even possible this day-in-age?

You (ELS) aren't giving any reasons for your assertion - you're just scalloping because most folks around here write in more traditional tonal styles.

What's your point?

We don't live in 19th century Vienna!

We don't live in 19th century Vienna!

You're dodging my question. WHY must music always push boundaries? Do you feel there's no way to be original, while writing with historical techniques?

I tend to agree with Corbin. This is pretty lame.

Why do you feel everything must be innovative? What IS originality? Is it even possible this day-in-age?

You (ELS) aren't giving any reasons for your assertion - you're just scalloping because most folks around here write in more traditional tonal styles.

What's your point?

Look at the post above this. It answers all of your questions.

I do.

Like this thread.

It is pretty lame.

Yes, you are entitled to your opinion.

You're dodging my question. WHY must music always push boundaries? Do you feel there's no way to be original, while writing with historical techniques?

... and to answer these... music doesn't have to always push boundaries, but it should be intelligent... and not rely on these typical chord progressions associated with common practice music.

I'm not implying creating original music is easy. Of course, I'm not perfect, as my music often emulates that of other composers and sometimes is just plain bad, but I don't believe microtonality, alternative tuning systems (i.e. just intonation, 15-note), and timbral manipulation have been mastered. Of course there are always new ways to be innovative. Whether you have to create a new form, or procedure, I know people can still be innovative! Igor Stravinsky in the 70s (when many alternative tuning systems were being experimented with) said that there would be new and innovative things to do with our 12-tone system for a long time.

Well, plenty of people believe that the 20th century deviation away from standard Western tonality was a failed experiment that went too far. In all honesty, when I hear Messiaen and Takemitsu, I hear music that most of the world has moved away from, and moved away from for a good reason.

If you want something that deviates from standard Western tonality, there are thousands of other cultures that have their own independent musical traditions. If you want the tonal concepts of non-Western music with the structural concepts of Western art music, "world music" and all fusions thereof have been done to death.

Personally, I believe in the simple yet sensible truth of what one of my favorite composers had to say about "atonality":

"To me, atonality is against nature. There is a centre to everything that exists. The planets have the sun, the moon [has] the earth. The reason I like Oriental music is because everything has a firm centre. All music with a centre is tonal. Music without a centre is fine for a minute or two, but it soon sounds all the same."

- Alan Hovhaness

That's my own personal reason for why I don't litter my music with jarring melodies, rhythms, and harmonies that go against what the human mind naturally likes to hear. You can't force innovation; otherwise it results in pedantic musings that no one *truly* wants to hear.

this is directed to ELS:

this forum is called "Young Composers".

that means that the median age is young.

which also means that most of the forum members have barely begun their formal training.

which means, stop being such a jerk.

If some 14 yr old is learning the basics, then I'm more than happy to see them using I-IV-V progressions if they're learning how to do it properly.

They have LOADS of time ahead of them to explore other types of writing.

So, my suggestion is, lay off with the pretentious bashing.

If you want to contribute to the forum, do so.

Right now, you're off to a really bad start.

Well, plenty of people believe that the 20th century deviation away from standard Western tonality was a failed experiment that went too far. In all honesty, when I hear Messiaen and Takemitsu, I hear music that most of the world has moved away from, and moved away from for a good reason.

If you want something that deviates from standard Western tonality, there are thousands of other cultures that have their own independent musical traditions. If you want the tonal concepts of non-Western music with the structural concepts of Western art music, "world music" and all fusions thereof have been done to death.

Personally, I believe in the simple yet sensible truth of what one of my favorite composers had to say about "atonality":

"To me, atonality is against nature. There is a centre to everything that exists. The planets have the sun, the moon [has] the earth. The reason I like Oriental music is because everything has a firm centre. All music with a centre is tonal. Music without a centre is fine for a minute or two, but it soon sounds all the same."

- Alan Hovhaness

That's my own personal reason for why I don't litter my music with jarring melodies, rhythms, and harmonies that go against what the human mind naturally likes to hear. You can't force innovation; otherwise it results in pedantic musings that no one *truly* wants to hear.

I made it very clear in my posts that I have nothing against tonality! I have no problem with anyone using tonality. Takemitsu even embraced tonality during many periods of his life. I think if you listen to Takemitsu's November Steps, or the Viola Concerto you may take more of a liking to Takemitsu.

this is directed to ELS:

this forum is called "Young Composers".

that means that the median age is young.

which also means that most of the forum members have barely begun their formal training.

which means, stop being such a jerk.

If some 14 yr old is learning the basics, then I'm more than happy to see them using I-IV-V progressions if they're learning how to do it properly.

They have LOADS of time ahead of them to explore other types of writing.

So, my suggestion is, lay off with the pretentious bashing.

If you want to contribute to the forum, do so.

Right now, you're off to a really bad start.

Point well taken. I'll cool it down.

Other people aren't going to write what YOU want to hear. Spend more time writing what you want to hear in music, less time arguing about it.

I don't think Takemitsu's viola concerto was titled Viola Concerto... I'm very sure it is actually A String Around Autumn.

If you are going to take the time and effort to italicize... let's do it right.

I'm sorry I didn't include the full title of his Viola concerto.

Other people aren't going to write what YOU want to hear. Spend more time writing what you want to hear in music, less time arguing about it.

The entire thread is summed up and quickly resolved in one post!

Great!

Now we can all go back to actually writing music, yes?