Minuetto con Trio, P. 32

Here is a little minuet and trio in C major that I composed I think in late February.

I wouldn't normally post such a small and insignificant work, but this is me playing it myself so here you go.

The form is:

Minuetto

Trio (G major)

Minuetto Da Capo

Please ignore the dog barking in the background. :P

I will post a score later.

I think there might be a little mistake in there somewhere...

oh well.

Here:

Minuet, M. 32.m4a - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

EDIT: Here's the score to follow along with.

Also it's not a very difficult piece at all... if anyone were to print it out and play it, I would be delighted. It just might be an itty-bitty addition to your repertoire! ;)

Minuetto con Trio, P. 32.pdf

i think this is a really nice composition, and you play very good too ;)

Thank you. :)

I have listened to a number of your pieces on your Soundclick page. I think your output is quite remarkable- I admire you greatly.

I am really glad you like my music, and makes me quite blush to have fans!

Do you have a website where you post your music too??

None other than here and a few other forums that i never use.

Mediocre imitation/exercise in the mozartean style of the classical period, complete with barking dog to accompany, the dog is actually replying to your music, if you listen closely.

Overall it sounds like Mozart if he ever sat struggling on the piano to create a piece.

I seriously recommend experimenting with areas of composition you are now most comfortable with. So if you are extremely comfortable with voice-leading, play around it with odd or out of the ordinary progressions that nonetheless make musical sense. I think you'll make progress when you start hearing things you like more than merely imitating another composer.

anyway you can post an mp3 or midi file of this? For some reason, I can't listen :(

Aww sounds like you have a cute dog there. xD This is a really nice piece you have, keep up the good work! ^^

Mediocre imitation/exercise in the mozartean style of the classical period, complete with barking dog to accompany, the dog is actually replying to your music, if you listen closely.

Overall it sounds like Mozart if he ever sat struggling on the piano to create a piece.

I seriously recommend experimenting with areas of composition you are now most comfortable with. So if you are extremely comfortable with voice-leading, play around it with odd or out of the ordinary progressions that nonetheless make musical sense. I think you'll make progress when you start hearing things you like more than merely imitating another composer.

Well, thank you for your thoughts, but I don't consider this an exercise because this is the style I choose to compose in. I consider it a small and rather pleasant dance, insignificant though it is. I don't believe you can speak for my dog, as you have no idea what the circumstances of the recording were and you have never met my dog.

Well, this minuet may be in the style of Mozart and his contemporaries, but it's not an imitation. It is my theme and I chose where to go with it. I also think that there are some things in this dance that Mozart would not have done. :)

Thank you, Exanimous, for your thoughts. :closedeyes:

I think I have addressed them.

(Yes, I do adopt a rather business-like tone when discussing my music :P)

Jawoodruff: I shall sniff around for some kind of converter, yes.

Nickady: Thank you. :D

I really enjoyed listening to your playing...i think that's a somewhat more rare thing on this forum. I congratulate your bravery on not only putting your music out there, but your performance as well. My favorite part was the transition to the trio section, it was very interesting and unexpected, and really beautiful. I would love to hear more from you. I think that this style is interesting, and would like to hear more.

How flattering... :blush:

But really it's an insignificant piece, and my playing is 2nd rate. :P

Thank you for the comments; I feel guilty accepting them after having criticized Exanimous's comments though... :P

Aww sounds like you have a cute dog there.

Indeed... :)

I know it's just a trifle, but I don't think you should let Exanimous' comments ruin it for you. It may be insignificant, but there are excellent ideas within.

Score posted!!! ;)

it is a bit trite.

and it's definitely an imitation style.

anyways, that aside:

you have a 7-bar phrase as your opening phrase.

if you want to write "in the style of", at least stay within its limitations as well.

the leading tone you finish with in the right hand is too short.

also, if it isn't actually LEADING to something (the tonic, normally), then it really requires that you sit on it a bit longer.

measure 10, the diminished 5th in the bass requires SOME sort of resolution, which it isn't getting.

measure 12-14 are rambling and directionless.

at measure 15, there's something wrong with the bass line. it doesn't support the coming cadence.

you could change the left hand part to

8th notes - C - D (which continues the series of 8ths in teh preceding measure)

then a quarter note on E,

then, instead of staying so firmly planted in C major, why not a brief fling through A minor?

have the 3rd beat as an A, quarter note.

measure 16, avoid that ugly octave.

instead,

1st beat = F quarter note (or passing 8th notes F - E)

2nd beat = D quarter note

3rd beat = G quarter note

measure 17, why not simply put a CHORD there? that simple unison is so plain and boring. (which is part of what makes the piece trite)

your trio is... strange.

it's more than unusual for such a brief piece to have an actual modulation into a new key.

measure 24, that direct octave G sounds very bare.

also, leaving that octave onto thirds doesn't feel "logical".

solve problem easily:

beat 1, quarter note, B. voila. no more direct octave, voice leading is smooth.

measure 25, that 6/4 chord sounds... off.

the harmony of measure 25 is unsatisfying anyways.

the 1st beat is obviously III in G (E minor)

logically, to lead to G major in the time you have there, why not simply V/V it through?

VI = V of A minor

II = V of D major

V = dominant of G.

so your harmony would be:

beat 1 = e minor

beat 2 = a minor

beat 3 = D major.

the harmony you have there now is rather weak.

which brings us back to the beginning...

measure 6 would be far more intriguing if it presaged the move to G major you want for your Trio.

starting at measure 5, the bass part:

C - c (half, quarter)

measure 6

D - F# (half, quarter)[here the F# is a leading tone in G, and HAS to rise to G]

measure 7

Right hand:

C - B - A (all quarter notes)

left hand:

G (dotted half note) [resolution of the dissonant F# from the preceding measure]

AND A NEW MEASURE ADDED HERE

"measure 7a" (really, measure 8)

right hand:

B (dotted half note)

left hand:

G (quarter note, octave down from preceding note)

leap up an octave and a sequence of descending 8ths: G - Fnat - E - D

this is a very limited time to really do anything interesting with, but here are a few suggestions in a PDF file.

edgar minuetto.pdf

Trite? That's a tiny bit harsh, no?

As to your analysis: blimey, I'll have to look at that when I have more time! :sweat:

Thank you for going into such detail for such a small piece! :)

Trite? That's a tiny bit harsh, no?

As to your analysis: blimey, I'll have to look at that when I have more time! :sweat:

Thank you for going into such detail for such a small piece! :)

no, trite describes it well:

it's a musical style that is 200 years gone.

even if it were mozart, it would be a very minor, insignificant work.

but you may as well learn from the experience.

and I added a PDF of some suggestions.

Even if it is small, it is still a nice piece Edgar :) I enjoyed the live recording also! Your dog is very cute ;) Good job!

Qc- It may be in disuse but it is certainly not gone. :)

Leigh- Thanks... :D

Qc- It may be in disuse but it is certainly not gone. :)

Please, show me a concert programme, by a professional ensemble, where a new work "in the style of" is performed.

I will then reconsider my stance on historicist music.

By "professional ensemble" I mean a symphony orchestra or other organization of the same caliber, with paid musicians, and a board of directors.

I don't mind if you want to write this type of music. But please, don't expect me to take it seriously, at least, no more seriously than the dozens of stylistic exercises that all the composition students at the local university have to write for their form and analysis classes.

:huh:

I never said that there were any new works in the Classical style being performed.

It's in disuse, but it's not gone. There's me, J. Lee, punkitititi, umm...

Well, it's VERY disused unfortunately, but that's just on YC.

Vox Saeclorum (I think that's the spelling) is an entire forum dedicated to Baroque and Classical music.

There's no reason to not take my music seriously just because it's in a style that most people don't use. It's hypocritical to call me "closed minded" about 4'33" when this is your attitude towards the style I choose to compose in.

:huh:

I never said that there were any new works in the Classical style being performed.

It's in disuse, but it's not gone. There's me, J. Lee, punkitititi, umm...

Well, it's VERY disused unfortunately, but that's just on YC.

Vox Saeclorum (I think that's the spelling) is an entire forum dedicated to Baroque and Classical music.

There's no reason to not take my music seriously just because it's in a style that most people don't use. It's hypocritical to call me "closed minded" about 4'33" when this is your attitude towards the style I choose to compose in.

oops there. slow down, big boy.

I haven't mentioned 4'33" nor have I called you hypocritical.

please don't confuse me with anyone else you might be having an argument with.

back to the topic of the day:

it's disused because music has evolved since that time period.

music has grown since that time period.

but in the end, you write music the way you want to write it.

that's ok.

You bring up J.Lee, which is in a way unfair since he is not participating in this thread and thus cannot defend himself if he so chooses to.

I can only encourage you to learn MORE about music and NOT stagnate in what is in essence a "beginners" style of music.

As I said, any composition student at the undergrad level should be able to compose classical pastiche of this sort at the drop of a hat. Whether the musical ideas have merit or not is irrelevant. The point being that the harmonic material you are choosing to use is extremely limited. As is the form and developmental possibilities.

Vox Saeculorum is a single group. It's an internet group, like YC is. It has absolutely no weight in the larger scheme of things. It's a group of people insisting on writing music as though we still used quill pens and rode in horse-drawn carriages. And in the end, no one takes them seriously.. except themselves.

If you want to settle for being performed by members of VS, then by all means, go to it. It's your life.

If your dream is to be performed by the Berlin Philharmonic, or by Yo Yo Ma, or by Andr

That's optimistic. :sadtears:

I went ahead and just had a friend play it so I could hear it...lol.

Cristo: You have, from what I see here, two good ideas that provide plenty of developmental possibilities. As this is in the style of a simple minuet, I can see why you didn't develop these ideas to their potential. I do agree that some of your leading tones could use some tinkering with - but nothing to difficult nor really problematic from my perspective on it. One suggestion, for better cohesion - I think: if you look at the minuets of Mozart and others from that period, you'll notice that the B section contains brief snippets of ideas from the A section. Mozart was very good at taking a theme and using it MANY different ways. He would take the chief idea or motif of his theme and utilize it in a different way (to put it a little simpler). I've posted an example via PDF from his Minuet K. 604. The first theme is from the minuet section and the second theme is from the Trio section. As in his later works he often would do Minuet (AB) Trio (AB), it is important to note that the B portions of both sections is more or less an expansion/development/embellishment of the thematic material. The important thing to look at in the first theme is the 3 note 'germ' in measure 5 in the flutes. This portion of the melody was what he used to provide cohesion between the two themes - and rather successfully. You see this appearing in the trio theme on the second measure - and even imitated in the violin accompaniment pattern (last three eight notes). To draw this in to your trio, and perhaps help a little bit: your trio theme has very little in common with the minuet theme. In fact, when I listened to it...I like the trio theme in its own right but wandered why you used it in relation to the first theme. I could easily see both themes being used in separate pieces and expanded upon easily though.

All in all, nice simple piece.

Thank you, Woodruff. Sorry about not being able to find a converter- I did look. :P

I think both you and Qc have been tremendously helpful, so thank you to both of you. :)