First Composition!-A Minuet...

I received a copy of Sibelius First as few weeks ago, and am amazed at what this program can do for $100! I always wanted to mess around with composition/theory and now I can in a fun and very friendly format.

Anyhow, I decided to begin with an easy form, the minuet. I hacked out a lead sheet (melody w/chords), and wrote from there. The bass/acomp. needs refinement and some ornament, I do believe. I've thrown in a surprise or two.

I welcome any comments. For the masters out there, please try to focus me on the 3-4 major problems vs. the dozens I know exist. I'm just getting my sea legs!

This first exercise taught me a bit about voice leading and string writing. I'm starting to take violin lessons next week to develop some sympatico with this instrument...

(unfortunately it seems I cannot upload the MP3 and am only hearing a generic synth library. But you get the idea. The Sib First library is pretty good...)

MP3 link:

Minuet and Trio.mp3 - 2.67MB

Minuet in C.pdf

Minuet.sib

Minuet.mid

PLEASE!!!! convert this to a midi so the rest of us can listen to it :)

thanks, and welcome to YC!

O.k.--here is the midi file.

Minuet.mid

I finally had a look at the score (I hadn't printed it out and mulled it over), and realize that it is messy! Also, some of the interest in the base line is lost as the piece progresses. I'll need to correct this and make the bass more uniform and interesting. Also, Sibelius has done some bizarre things with my phrase marks, which have been misplaced! The forte in the trio viola has to go. I put this in to bring out the line in playback, but it is not required in the score- a competent quartet would get the dynamics right.

Some pointed questions:

1. Is the transition from the eighth notes in the trio section in the 1st violin part to the pizzicato a reasonably playable transition?

2. Are the intervals between parts correct?--particularly the base (I wrote the base immediately after the lead sheet)?

3. While I am aware of a different, more common repeat structure for the 1st and 2nd themes and the trio, this arrangement sounded better to me. Is this a no-no (1st and second subject/repeat...) or something that is acceptable?

The recapitulation begs for a quicker paced accompaniment (eighths/grace notes) and I will work a rewrite for this. This was my intention when I placed the repeated section there, vs. a de capo.

Again, any comments are welcomed. Please, be brutal. I know this is trite derivitive junk. I don't have any pretentions. I just want it to be musical and at least formally correct, and/or understand why it is not.

It certainly can't be inspired!

1. Is the transition from the eighth notes in the trio section in the 1st violin part to the pizzicato a reasonably playable transition?

I assume here you mean m. 27, the move to pizzicato is playable but makes no real musical sense given that prior to this none of the instruments lead into the pizzicato (i hope that makes sense).

2. Are the intervals between parts correct?--particularly the base (I wrote the base immediately after the lead sheet)?

From my perspective on this, I think you did a good job in your relationship between parts. The bass line adds nice interest to it.

3. While I am aware of a different, more common repeat structure for the 1st and 2nd themes and the trio, this arrangement sounded better to me. Is this a no-no (1st and second subject/repeat...) or something that is acceptable?

Repeats are common in this specific form, you can however variate the material to provide a little more interest. I suggest perhaps viewing a few of the Minuets composed by Mozart. They are, in my opinion, good formal study guides for this sort of writing.

Thanks for the response!

Yes, I understand what you mean about the pizzicato not being "prepared" in any way. I think the segment works musically-- a humorus break in the monotony of 3/4 time--but I didn't care for the sound of the bowed eighths.

So? Do I go with the bowed eights or prepare the pizz. with an ornamental/phrase pizz. figure in the preceeding material? The third option is to leave it, as a textural AND rhythmic break, but I tend to agree with you--it needs to be prepared in some way. I'll sleep on it...

Thanks for the encouragement on the intervals/bass. I am my only teacher (along with books and CDs!) and some indication that I am at least on track (or off track!) is needed and valued encouragement/feedback. Also, though I get into chord progression, modulations, etc... discussion of inversions put me to sleep, unfortunately...

Well, from listening it just stops the entire flow of the piece though.

O.k. Of course, that is the point, an attempt at humor. (The listener has just heard almost 40 banal bars of generic 3/4 time with unrelenting accent on the 1st beat. The all of a sudden...!?!? I guess the underlying idea is: this dude can't seriously be writing a minuet, straight up, in 2009? I just felt like I have to cue the listener in to the shared absurdity!)

Maybe it's me. After three days of writing/hearing 3/4 time, ANY change is welcomed relief. I'll try it both ways. It would be sad for me, to cut the only bit of unusual writing...

I'm looking at the score and thinking I could salvage the pizz with making the 1st and second violin descending four note figure--which occurs twice prior in the trio, into a pizz. segment, preparing the joke.

Any other opinions in this regard?

i think its nice. like the arepeggio part in violin. but it gets kinda boring after a while. you should play with some countermelodies.

and btw, nice first try. my first try wasnt as good as this. :)

Thanks!

When you say arpeggio, I assume you meant viola part?-- The counter melody idea is a good one. I'm thinking that plugging it in the recap for 2nd violin/viola might work.

As far as shortening the arpeggio, it is sort of an 8 bar set piece, it seems to me. I could adjust the figure in the 5th/6th bars (at the mid point of the dominant section) for some movement. Good suggestion. Thanks!

I just hear in my mind's ear a mixed passage with the arpeggio ending with a countermelody! Oh! thats what you mean! Yeah, that might work, or maybe I could pass the arpeggio to the 2nd violin- and have the viola play the new countermelody? Hmmm....

I've messed with the rit./pizz. passage several ways, none of them satisfactory. I think the only solution is to transform the note values/style as the temp slows within the measure. Dotted quarter, dottted eighth or 16th, THEN a pizz. I might have to slow the progression down further as well to accentuate the effect.

If this doesn't work, then the section has to go, and it will be a bland exercise. Oh well.

Sometimes I wish I wasn't quite so obsessional.:w00t:

Hi cyber,

I personally found this to be well-written melodically, with a good sense of harmonic accompaniment. However one thing that struck me is the passage at bar 2 beat 3. I think the problem is the bass line harmonising with the viola. It suggests a chord of A minor moving rapidly to C major which although after a few listens started to sound ok, initially jumped out at me as being slightly akward. I think perhaps if the bass line simply had a note of C for that beat you might get a more solid harmonic progression, or perhaps quaver notes of G to E therefore creating major 6ths with the viola?

Aside from this I really enjoyed it. But perhaps the lead up to ending (bars 53-56) could be played at a slower tempo?

hey! Thanks for the comments. I'll look at the second bar again. I went through and did some shuffling of the harmony as I tried to clean up the score, and impose some uniformity. It is possible I've already rearranged it (perhaps somewhat randomly, if you know what I mean...).

I'm thinking I could impose a more stately tempo to wind down prior to the ending, maybe w/ an ad libatum. I'll check the old Mozart to see if he has anything to say (I don't think this was the convention for him...) However, this might detract from the wind down imposed by the stumbling pizz ending, which sort of served that purpose. Worth messing with.

Thanks again. By the way, I really liked you "Chopinesque". I have only a passing familiarity with Chopin but it certainly evoked mid-romantic period writing!

I'm gonna patch this minuet up tonight, post it, then move on. Next: aping Mendelssohn's quartet writing! Yehaw!

Thanks again. By the way, I really liked you "Chopinesque". I have only a passing familiarity with Chopin but it certainly evoked mid-romantic period writing!

Hey thanks a lot! It is actually a kind of 'fantasy on a theme of Chopin', as it uses two of his motifs (from an

Final changes--

I cleaned up the score a bit (I'm learning that this never ends...), added a countersubject to the recap, and found a half-solution to the trio pizz.

Done.

I am pleased with it. Thanks for all the suggestions, many of which I used!

Wish I could find a way to send a MUS, wav, or MP3 file...

Minuet and Trio.pdf

Minuet and Trio.mid

This really is a very good first composition. I can see you already have a good ear as everything sounds in place. The countersubject in the recap adds more intrigue to the piece, providing the listener with sustained interest.

Do you have a background in music? I would imagine so based on this work.

If you want to send this as an mp3 file, you either need to upload it to an file sharing host such as mediafire or zshare, or get yourself some webspace!

Or alternatively if you send me the mp3 file I can host it for you if you like?

You are very kind!

I had 7 years of band (Flute) with a few years of private lessons and a music theory class in high school. I've taught myself (churchchord) guitar, and over a ten year period and finally the aquisition of a fine digital console piano, some reasonable keyboard skills-enough to play sheet music pop tunes and some easy beginner classical stuff--it seems enough to greatly assist in composition.

Other than that, I have listened to probably 1,000 hrs or so of classical music over the decades (c.1500-1900--oh, the music that is!!hahahah), primarily-enough to have trained my ear to conventions of the periods. I try to aquire scores of music and have a small library, mostly chamber works.

This new software really has me excited though, as it allows me to compensate for training and education, as I try to learn. I am finally taking formal violin lessons and want to know this instrument well enough to assist in composition--and learn it correctly.

I am, in short, the architypal frustrated artist.

Are these MP3 sites free? I tried a few sites and they either cost money or didn't provide the correct service. Channeling MP3s through you, while kind if somewhat convoluted, really isn't necessary. All I knw is the MIDI files are an abomination on a music forum web site!

(I've just created an account at Zshare, but how do I link to this site in a form it accepts???)

I do like the minuet, but I got lazy on the base in the revisions, and the trio pizz has a few over exberances--but I'm leaving it for now. I'm thinking if I get this Ist movement Mendelssohnesque finished (1-2 months!), I might learn a good deal from having both pieces (privately) performed by some community muscians, and correlate writtten music for strings with the performance. That would be a HOOT.

Thanks again !!

Let's try this:

The web link for the MP3 file:

Minuet and Trio.mp3 - 2.67MB

Hi, its a nice piece for a messing about.. i use sib its great :D 1 thing that really bothered me was that you were messing around with the theory and construction etc. yet you still wrote quavers and then a quaver rest... why not write a staccatoed crotchet??

I think you mean 8th notes and rests vs. stac. quarters? What is wrong with this? I wanted an 8th note. I wrote an 8th note. Writing a quarter with a performance mark would seem to give the performer more leeway than the composer might intend (it seems to me).

Also, playback in Sib gives subtle differences. I can only imagine a real string qartet would too.

Have I violated some rule?