The Intersection of Instinct and Faith

EDIT Now available in bite-sized chunks! See post at the bottom of the thread...

Hi--

I'm Doug Robinson and this is a 28 minute multi-movement piece I have just finished composing using Logic 8 and Omnisphere. The Intersection of Instinct and Faith was originally conceived as a soundtrack for a promotional DVD/slideshow for Mexican surrealist painter Juan Ezcurdia (see below). I have decided to continue to develop some of the themes and beef up the jazz improvisation sections and then to release it as a standalone piece in the Fall of '09.

http://www.speedyshare.com/428402556.html (note--this is an updated mix from 4/20/09)

I do not have a score to post, as I have been working fast in order to make the DVD/slideshow deadline, composing, arranging, sequencing and recording as I go. In addition, this is a composition that is unlikely to be performed by anyone other than myself in the near future. I hope when you listen you will forgive the lack of a written score--it is absolutely a serious bit of work.

Juan's images are filled with wistful longing, a sense of almost playful melancholia. Each movement reflects different aspects of his paintings, and the DVD follows the score in showing first the romantic relationship-based paintings, then the poignant, then the absurdist and so on.

This has been the most creative nine days (at least 80 hours) of my entire career. I hope you enjoy the results.

I forgot to mention that the piece is composed for a combination of acoustic instruments and some electronics, and also that the steel drum jazz section is still awaiting improvised solos from an acoustic guitarist and a scat singer.

Thanks for listening.

Doug

SOME PAINTINGS BY JUAN EZCURDIA FROM THE SLIDESHOW:

Doug

Welcome to YC.

This is a delightful piece and fits the paintings very well.

In a performance though, you may want to cut out some of the more ambient parts. But if this music is strictly bacfkground, it all fits well.

I was pretty sure that this was your first major piece using Omnisphere and that is why there are a few places that just sort of float along. We all do it whenever we get new toys to play with. It's a matter of what will this slider/button do. What if I increase this or decrease that. All the fun stuff that we get to do with our new sounds get tossed into pieces right away.

The one movement does scream Jazz and it fits well with the other movements.

Well done

Ron

Thanks, Ron. You might be right, though I'm pretty careful to avoid experimenting with new sounds just for the sake of it. You might be referring to the hammered dulcimer/slapback echo section, which I don't hear as ambient so much as ambiguous--the chord progression is distinct, but due to the arpeggiated dulcimer part there are really a few different choices for what the listener picks as the 'main melody.' That's definitely intentional, as I felt I had already introduced or was about to introduce enough strong themes in the overall piece that i didn't need one more.

This is, for the most part, a piece that has already been performed--on the recording. No sense in trying to find an ensemble that happens to have a 'backwards-recorded piano' in its lineup. :)

Again, thank you for the feedback and the kind words.

Doug

Hey Jazzooo,

OH my goodness! I love, love, love this! The guitar theme 5:00 is just...ahhh...breath-taking! Anyways, it's very original and a whole new sound World of its own! Your experiments have had very good results. This music is making me feel very happy. And it goes perfectly with those paintings. The 'playful melancholia' is so exact. Thanks for sharing this here.

Peace, J

world music

Goodness, how to respond to two such diverse posts? ;) I do appreciate you both listening and commenting.

It is quite good, I only would like to say a few things,

- I'd love to hear more the Bandone

Thanks, Daniel. The little theme that stands out is just a bridge to the next section; the birds are actually birds and monkeys and I still can't get the right balance in my mix yet. I will definitely post the finished product--the slideshow with the paintings and the soundtrack--when it is ready. Maybe you'll want to come to SMA for the premiere--we're going to do it in a gallery, maybe in August.

I appreciate the thoughtful listen.

Doug

It was suggested that I break this 28 minute, through-composed soundtrack into movement-specific soundbites, so here we go! I hope you will enjoy them as you can get to them.

MOVEMENT 1

A vaguely other-worldly waltz--just a hint of fantasy.

Slide Move 1.mp3

MOVEMENT 2

Signals a departure from common instruments played in predictable ways. A call to arms, followed by a second theme of longing, followed by some neat string section/marimba/brass/castinet/marching snare chaos, followed by a third theme played on the hammered dulcimer. The transition to the next movement will seem abrupt in this version, as the backwards piano that ends this one actually blends seamlessly into the next movement, but you know what they say: art, like life, consists of drawing the line somewhere. ;) Slide Move 2.mp3

MOVEMENT 3

I put in the last few seconds of the backwards piano from the end of Movement 2 for continuity. It the restates the theme from movement 1 and then introduces an ascending bridge that will reappear later on. Then we get into a whimsical jazz movement with a fun guitar solo by Ken Basman, and a still-missing followup solo by someone--haven't decided yet!

Again, then ending is seamless between movements, but I had to cut this movement off where I did to present the piece n smaller chunks here.

http://www4.speedyshare.com/data/194327786/16646169/77698656/Slide%20Move%203.mp3

MOVEMENT 4

A somewhat pensive theme played on a sampled lap steel guitar, which transitions into the next movement.

http://www4.speedyshare.com/data/194327786/16646170/11483892/Slide%20Move%204..mp3

MOVEMENT 5

A pizzicato movement that will drive purists insane, as I play some pianistic licks--but remember, the art is surreal too. I'm the performer, not an ensemble. The ascending bridge makes a second and final appearance here. The two-pizz section was two separate improvisations with very little editing. I love the bouncy little sound at the end--a ping pong ball on a piano string, I believe. It plays the tonic, but in the next movement it turns out to be the 3rd.

http://www4.speedyshare.com/data/194327786/16646171/53402130/Slide%20Move%205..mp3

MOVEMENT 6

A restating of the original theme on a dreamy piano with steel drum,a bit of grunge guitar, and a nice (I think) turnaround of the rhythm in the B section of the theme.

http://www4.speedyshare.com/data/194327786/16646172/57884468/Slide%20Move%206..mp3

Have a great weekend and thanks for listening.

Doug

Jazzoo-

Extremely ambient. Reminds me a little of Eno but with more Jazz and Afro rhythms and a richer harmonic palette.

Yeah has a little of the "new age " feeling - i think it is the synthesizer swells you use as pedal tones that does it and the mixture of Western and non-Western instrumental sounds. But I find it more interesting and much better than the run of mill new age dreck I hear in some health food stores and "new age' stores.

Actually, I have not much else to say - partly this is not my usual cup of tea but I can hear this is very well done - especially the overlapping of various thematic/accompaniment materials and the degree of contrapuntal complexity grabs my interest.

Oh I agree if this is ever to be a performance piece I'd cut down the sustained synth sounds that heighten the ambient feel (as Rolifer said), this piece would have a far drier, cutting and more rhythmically driving sound - something to consider heightening for a completely acoustic version.

I'll have to take a second listen as i have gotten about 3/4 of the way.

"Yeah has a little of the "new age " feeling - i think it is the synthesizer swells you use as pedal tones that does it and the mixture of Western and non-Western instrumental sounds."

Yep.

" But I find it more interesting and much better than the run of mill new age dreck I hear in some health food stores and "new age' stores."

Well , this is through-composed as opposed to through-noodled on a synth with a neat sound. ;)

The swells you hear are actually a piano, recorded backwards. I need to bring out the melodies a bit more in the recording--they trick the ear into think it's just a weird sound randomly folding in on itself or whatever, but the backwards piano is actually playing the main theme and later, introducing an ascending motif that will be repeated by other instruments.

Check out the last 1/4--it's my favorite fourth. ;)

Thanks for the listen--and I checked out the first of your links last night. I find that kind of music stunning and enjoyable and almost impenetrable to comprehend. I'm not sure it is what Gold is looking for, but maybe you have other tracks in mind?

Doug

Well not really sure about sending stuff to Gold, just wondering with your production experience if you would have recommendations of what "niches" my music could also fall into aside for classical/contemporary classical. I think you listened to Volcano first - the organ piece. Best way to get it is listen carefully to the opening choral which contains most of the thematic material for the A and A' sections as well as the ostinato (look at the score for the repeated middle C's in the choral which foreshadow the ostinato. The B section with the runs were improvised at the piano but keeping the choral in mind.

Listened to it thru. I like the re-orchestrated recap of the opening material at the end - the opening material but with steel drums, synth , electric guitar with some of the jazzy rhythms when the steel drums first are hear. Also some connections between the steel guitar solo like section and the opening accordion like material. Seems the steel guitar improvisatory material is based on the opening . Is that correct?

Do you know brian Eno's album Another Green World - some of your sounds remind of it.

"Also some connections between the steel guitar solo like section and the opening accordion like material. Seems the steel guitar improvisatory material is based on the opening . Is that correct?"

yes, in the sense that I actually improvised (and recorded) the steel guitar section about a month before I started this larger piece, so I had the egg before the chicken came along! I haven't listened to Brian Eno much at all--when he first came out I wasn't interested in ambience of any kind. And now I'm kind of walking my own path, though I do appreciate Patrick O' Hearn. I do understand that it is probably a compliment, though, so thanks. ;)

Your music...you know, I have a much harder time than the rest of you hearing midi stuff where most notes are quantized and have very little dynamic range, and hearing how it 'could' sound. The organ piece thrilled me, but so far the others--while obviously well thought-out--just sound a bit mechanical to me. Have you ever composed for live players? I want to hear that fugue played by flesh and blooders, see how it changes. I don't mean this as a slam at all--you've obviously got significant talent, but the midi'd performance sounds too demo-ish for me to warm up to it. I'm sorry to say this as I think I do like the music.

One last thing, comp--if you can play your the pieces in real time at a slower tempo, one part at a time, and then speed the performance up but without quantizing it, it might work a bit better. Have you tried this?

I should have made the time to listen to this earlier. It's great! Very hard to pigeon-hole, extremely creative - your ideas just seem to go on and on, pouring out of you. On the face of it, they seem rather primitive, but the way you combine and develop the various sounds and motives is really nice. Mike Oldfield meets Frank Zappa meets Brian Eno.

One general observation: there is a monotonous "duh, do-do duh, duh" type feel in places, i.e. one new chord per bar, or half bar. It gets a bit tiring, although the material is generally pleasing enough to offset this difficulty. Also, you could maybe cut the whole thing down by a few minutes, but maybe that's just my attention span talking...

I'm curious: what is the ratio of Logic stock sounds to Omnisphere sounds, roughly? I plan to buy Omnisphere when I have the money, is all.

Thanks for sharing!

Jazzoo

No problem about the coldness of the midi - for now I have been just exporting Sib files to midi to create the files. So no tweaking which creates a very mechanical sound (especally vocal music - I hate most of the sound patches for it). For more live performances try my soundclick page - SoundClick artist: comporgan - page with MP3 music downloads. Only piece that is not performed by live players is the Sextet.

I also enjoy writing for live performers and saving money for recording them. I have quite a few recordings planned - two Sextets, maybe a short song cycle (based on the Vanessa song) and a piano suite. But I have to finish the pieces first.

But thanks for the good ideas. One of my goals is to get the basics of Logic down this summer as recording live performances can get expensive and , in some instances, the computer realization sounds better.

PS, All the works I have posted have been read by live players - since 2007 I have been taking composition class at Juilliard Eve Division and we get to hear our sketches and "final" version read by the students from the Juilliard School or professional musicians. One thing I find is that most of my stuff doesn't translate well into basic midi (but that is true for most peoples stuff). So I think it is funny you asked if I have been writing for live players - I have for 2 years!

Yo, Mike--thanks for checking it out! I was stunned at the number of ideas that were keepers during the 9 days of composing. I'm still tweaking the mix, as the slideshow editor took one listen and said "Whoa--I want to re-cut everything!" so I've got some time to fiddle around.

"One general observation: there is a monotonous "duh, do-do duh, duh" type feel in places, i.e. one new chord per bar, or half bar. It gets a bit tiring, although the material is generally pleasing enough to offset this difficulty. Also, you could maybe cut the whole thing down by a few minutes, but maybe that's just my attention span talking..."

No, I feel it too, but I'm used to it--I think that's going to be a very specific series of images in the slideshow dealing with dreaming, fantasy and flying and I think a stronger melody would compete in those sections. At least that's how I went into it.

I'll be posting more work in jazz and other genres, and I think the one thing you'll notice is that I rarely vamp or do what we're talking about. It was a conscious decision--I've never made music that was intended to be a background and even typing those words creeps me out a little! But there is something kind of spiritually refreshing about the back and forth nature of this work--me, then the paintings, then me, then the paintings, with the attention shifting as needed. Or maybe it will just suck. ;)

"I'm curious: what is the ratio of Logic stock sounds to Omnisphere sounds, roughly? I plan to buy Omnisphere when I have the money, is all."

It's about 60% Omni, more or less: the primitive brass sounds, the backwards piano and in fact all keyboard sounds, the sampled lap steel guitar, the synced-delay hammered dulcimer sounds, the steel drums--these are some of the featured Omni sounds. Most of the percussion and the strings, the upright bass, the Chinese violin, the bandoneon--those are Logic sounds. Omni skews towards the ambient, but not exclusively and it is dirt simple to edit and play around with--I'm a technodweeb so I should know.

Thanks again for listening and for your kind words!

Doug

Gotcha, comporganist :)

I'll look forward to hearing your other tracks over the next couple of days, thanks. General Midi sounds are never the best...but I could play you a track I sequenced using them in 1996 with only a live fretless bass and some voices that would make you think you're listening to a) live players or, now that you know b) a very expensive sample library. It really is about conceptualizing first, and then inputting/playing the parts idiomatically (think like a string player or a bandoneon player and so on).

I wouldn't have even mentioned it--many people here are not interested in their recordings sounding close to real since they hope to have the pieces played by someone else in the end. We had an interesting discussion about this in a thread I started about Midi in general recently. Still, my position is that the closest I can get with my mockup, the better for everyone involved--I really get to hear if my ideas will work or not; I can listen to the arrangement over and over and tweak before giving it to players and having a single session with them. It only occurred to me to comment in your case because you were talking about submitting something to Gold, and when people are talking about 'electronic music' they are talking about finished product, whether it is all electronic, dance, new age or whatever.

ok, time to dig some more of your work!

Doug

"But thanks for the good ideas. One of my goals is to get the basics of Logic down this summer as recording live performances can get expensive and , in some instances, the computer realization sounds better."

Not to mention, comporganist, that with two decent mics and a little audio interface box, Logic on a laptop can enable you to record live performances yourself. To get really good at it, you need to learn and practice like anything else. But even stumbling around with Logic, you can make something you can enjoy and learn from yourself. Logic does audio and midi both.

thanks jazzoo - pardon me unintentionally hijacking this thread to discuss other things aside from the work you posted.

For now I eill have to make due stumbling around with Logic. I also study organ and seeking paid work plus completing a backlog of works ... you get the fdrift. Your comment make the Music Technology course sound like a good idea.

Hey, talking is talking. I'm not worried about threads changing course. And comp, I was thinking about you a little when I posted that thread about the little Zoom Recorder. It's the size of a nice sized granola bar (a generous one!), costs $150, is easy to operate and makes 24 bit recordings from its four built in mics. I can honestly say that other than Omnisphere, it's the coolest toy I've bought in several years--I take it to rehearsals, gigs, concerts, set it up and forget it. Then I drag the audio file to my computer via USB and can listen, burn CDs or whatever. As a Logic user, I can tell you that for casual recording these things are way simpler. If you come into some extra money check them out.