Lessons with Student_of_Mozart

Let me know where you'd like to begin.

Well, I think it would be a good idea to start from the ground up reinforcing what my teacher taught, but I thought it wasnt taught enough/I didnt learn it as well as I would like.

Forms is an area we just literally tapped on so I would like to begin there...

Developing themes would be another good place to begin.

I can submit some works of mine for you to see where I am...

Edit: I have added my best work. (at least so in my opinion. :P If you dont have finale let me know and I'll put a Midi up.)

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Rondo-form, for the Andante.

Okay, let's talk about developing themes, because it will allow some work with counterpoint at the same time. The one thing I noticed in your piece is that, while each line is stylistically classical, the counterpoint between the lines needs some help.

Did you go over any of species counterpoint with your previous teacher?

We went over Species one very quickly. We did learn the basics such as no consecutive octaves or fifths etc...

Classical is what I am shooting for. May I ask how it is stylistically classical?

And I take it you do have finale. :)

I attached another song of mine, it has my attempt at a counterpoint/fugue (middle of the song, after the trill) I thought it might be relevant.

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I do have Finale.

The use of the Alberti bass and the scalar figures in each line are both stylistic markers of the Classical era. However, you have parallel and hidden octaves ALL over the counterpoint. I'll post a marked-up copy of your score in a bit.

In the meantime, I'd like to do an exercise in thematic construction.

1) pick five notes from a one-octave dodecaphonic scale - no more than three consecutive half or whole steps in a row (that is, no CDEF - but CDEG is fine).

2) construct five different melodies with these five notes. You may repeat notes, but you may not return to a note until the full sequence of five notes is used (CDEEGA is fine, but CDEGEA is not). Each melody should be no more than four measures long in a time signature of your choice.

We'll start from there, and begin to build themes out of those melodies when you have them written.

Big words. :O lol. We didnt learn many different scales with words such as that. (dodecaphonic).

I am assuming it means CDEFGAB.

Let me work something up. Does it need to start on the same note each time? Lets say my sequence is CEFGD (Just as an example). Do I have to start on C every time or can I start on G or E for new melodies?

And After I complete the CEFGD for the first time in a melody, would I have to do it again in the next measure(s) but in a different rhythm?

Big words. :O lol. We didnt learn many different scales with words such as that. (dodecaphonic).

I am assuming it means CDEFGAB.

Let me work something up. Does it need to start on the same note each time? Lets say my sequence is CEFGD (Just as an example). Do I have to start on C every time or can I start on G or E for new melodies?

And After I complete the CEFGD for the first time in a melody, would I have to do it again in the next measure(s) but in a different rhythm?

Dodecaphonic means all 12 pitches on the piano keyboard.

Your melodies can begin on any pitch of the five, and the five can be in any order.

Got it...give me a few...

Done...I hope these are what you are looking for. I composed them by following the instructions as best I could...

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Okay - I want you to fix a few things with this.

First: think smaller-scale. We're ultimately going to be taking these melodies (or melody-fragments, really) and turning them into thematic material, so these should be very simple.

Secondly: use ONLY five pitches. You have some chromatic alteration in this version of the exercises, and while that will come into it later, it makes this stuff a little more complicated than we want at this point.

For instance... I'd choose... C#, E, F, Ab, Bb - and only use those five notes. You choose notes that you prefer.

Sorry for the misunderstanding...

If my notes I choose are CEFGD I have to write a melody using ONLY those notes. I cant get from C to E by putting in a D?

Again, sorry for the misunderstandings, im just not understanding fully...

Sorry for the misunderstanding...

If my notes I choose are CEFGD I have to write a melody using ONLY those notes. I cant get from C to E by putting in a D?

Again, sorry for the misunderstandings, im just not understanding fully...

Correct. Use ONLY the five notes you've chosen. We'll add in passing tones/chromatic neighbors/etc. later.

Here is my second attempt. I hope I did it right. I used the notes CDEFG (Yeah I know it aint too creative. :P But it gives me alot to work with.)

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I simplified them considerably, but just in case that wasnt enough, I simplified it down to just quarter notes...

(Next Post)

Here's the quarter note one...

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Alright. They weren't exactly what I had in mind, but they should work really well for our purposes.

For Thematic Development:

Choose one of those melodies that you like the best, and write a set of five variations on that melody, using it as a theme. However, I don't want you to do what Mozart does with his 'Variations on "Ah, vous dirait-je, maman."' See, with Mozart, all he's really doing is EMBELLISHING the theme, and we really want to develop it into new musical materials. I want you to break the melodies down into parts that you could use as motifs. The motif can be based on pitch, rhythm, or both. For instance, I might pull out the second and third beats of the second melody (CDEC in eighth notes), and use that as the seed for development. Your variations should have two melodic lines (like a Bach 2-part invention) that harmonize and complement each other.

For Counterpoint:

Read this:

Species Counterpoint

Complete the exercise if you choose.

Then, using your FIRST melody (the quarter notes version) compose a first-species counterpoint line to it.

Yeah, I was just misunderstanding the assignment a little. Sorry for any inconvenience.

"Choose one of those melodies that you like the best"

From the first or second set?

To make sure I dont mess this all up again, could you possibly provide just a little example of the Thematic Development Assignment? I think I understand what you are saying, but I want to be sure cause I dont want you to think I am even more stupid. :P

And we have come onto a topic I forgot to mention, we did not learn to harmonize properly...We talked about it, but didn't practice it. Sorry if this causes any conflicts. :(

The melody you choose should be from the five that you wrote.

All that you need to do for this is pull a short motif (or motivic element) from that melody - something that DEFINES that melody for you, whether it's the specific pitches, or rhythms, or whatever - and use it as the seed for a new short piece. Do that with three to five separate motifs, all from the same melody.

We'll learn how to harmonize as a function of learning counterpoint.

Okay, I understand.

Here is the counterpoint for the first quarter note melody.

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And I have completed one variation for Melodic development, I would like you to take a look over it before I go any further to see if it is correct in what you wanted...

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First: the counterpoint:

The first bar (or technically, four bars, since 1st-species is considered to be all whole notes) is fine. The second bar: you have two parallel leaps resulting in a fifth. This is called a "hidden" fifth, because if you were to fill in the gaps, you would end up with parallel fifths, which is not allowed. In the third bar, you have a tritone on beat one. Dissonance is not allowed at all in 1st-species, and only in 4th species (syncopation) is it allowed on a downbeat. You then move in beat two of that measure to a compound 4th. The 4th is a dissonant interval in two-part counterpoint, and is therefore not allowed. In the fourth bar, second beat, you leap upwards in both voices to an octave. Similar to the "hidden fifth," we have the "hidden octave," and this too is not allowed. Finally, in the third beat of the bar, you have a fifth. In 1st-species counterpoint, the penultimate note of the counterpoint must be the leading tone (or the supertonic if the leading tone is in the cantus firmus).

What may help is to transcribe this melody as whole notes, and write your first counterpoint line above the cantus, rather than below. In addition, you may edit the melody so it's shorter (this too will make the counterpoint easier).

The link I posted has all the information you need about 1st-species counterpoint on it. Please read it.

And I have completed one variation for Melodic development, I would like you to take a look over it before I go any further to see if it is correct in what you wanted...

This is exactly what you should be doing, yes. Though feel free to explore the motif even more!

First: the counterpoint:

The first bar (or technically, four bars, since 1st-species is considered to be all whole notes) is fine. The second bar: you have two parallel leaps resulting in a fifth. This is called a "hidden" fifth, because if you were to fill in the gaps, you would end up with parallel fifths, which is not allowed. In the third bar, you have a tritone on beat one. Dissonance is not allowed at all in 1st-species, and only in 4th species (syncopation) is it allowed on a downbeat. You then move in beat two of that measure to a compound 4th. The 4th is a dissonant interval in two-part counterpoint, and is therefore not allowed. In the fourth bar, second beat, you leap upwards in both voices to an octave. Similar to the "hidden fifth," we have the "hidden octave," and this too is not allowed. Finally, in the third beat of the bar, you have a fifth. In 1st-species counterpoint, the penultimate note of the counterpoint must be the leading tone (or the supertonic if the leading tone is in the cantus firmus).

What may help is to transcribe this melody as whole notes, and write your first counterpoint line above the cantus, rather than below. In addition, you may edit the melody so it's shorter (this too will make the counterpoint easier).

The link I posted has all the information you need about 1st-species counterpoint on it. Please read it.

I did take a good read at that link you gave me. When I wrote these I was going off of my education at school here. :) I'll be sure to read it much more thoroughly.

Okay, here is the revised counterpoint exercise...

And on the theme development, can I use eighth notes?

Bump

And on the theme development, can I use eighth notes?

Yep, you sure can.