Mass: What kinds and how to write?

Dear all,

I am thinking of writing a Mass; I have recently had the chance to witness the live performance of the Kronungsmesse Coronation Mass by Mozart in C major K317 in my friend's church.

I'm not a catholic, you see. I am a protestant. :D

I was enthralled by the experience, and undertook to compose a Mass also.

Could anyone enlighten me:

1) What sections are there in a mass, and what are the texts? (I know theres the credo, the Kyrie... and I don't know the others. :()

2) Are there any things to take note of when writing a mass?

3) Are there any restrictions to note of, musically or otherwise when writing a mass?

I'd be grateful if you would send me any links or explanations to clarify my doubts. Thanks :toothygrin:

Cheers, David

Perhaps you can take the pain first to have a look at the other written masses, instead of taking the easy road and let us do the work. There are plenty of examples to choose from, ranging from Renaissance music to modern ones. You would also learn from it which passages in the Latin text get more stress than others, just as they are important form liturgical point of view

You can alway choose to take other texts, like Brahms did in his requiem (which is technically a sort of mass).

I agree with beethoven_guy. you should do a little research on your own; even the small wiki of yc has an article about the mass and its movements. Even with text and translation.

Sure! This was what i found, feel free to correct if you spot any disrepancies;

I went on to google, and I found this page offering the texts of what I heard on the Kronungsmesse:

Mass: Text

A musical setting for the five ordinary hymns, called a Mass, has been a major musical form.

The Mass has sections that are categorized into two parts, the Proper and the Ordinary. The composed Mass often concerns itself more with the ordinary hymns, although plainchant exists for both parts of the Mass.

The five ordinary hymns are:

The Kyrie

Kyrie, short for Kyrie Eleison, is a plea for mercy. It literally means "Lord, have mercy". Set in greek, it is usually written in great melisma due to the short nature of the text.

The Gloria

Short for Gloria in excelsis, it is a celebratory hymn praising God and Christ;

The Credo

One of the longest parts of the mass, it is set on the nicene creed, which is substantially longer than the Apostle's creed, as it contains specific rebuttals against the heresy of Arianism during when it was formulated;

The Sanctus

A doxology proclaiming the holiness of the Holy trinity

The Agnus Dei

A setting of the "Lamb of God" litany

The exact text for these five ordinary hymns can be found in the link given above;

Please feel free to correct or add on to my findings. Cheers:thumbsup:

David, it's important to distinguish between several types of Mass text. The Mozart K317 is a setting of the Mass Ordinary, which contains the six main sections (Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, Benedictus and Agnus Dei) set as single movements with the text sung through. The Mass Ordinary is more often set with more than one movement per section, so for example Mozart's C minor Mass has nearly ten movements in the Gloria, because he sets only a few lines of the text in each movement. There s also something called the Mass Proper, which uses extra prayers and sections as well as the regular mass text. These sections vary depending on the time or year or a special occasion.

Some composers have also written something called a Missa Brevis, which means 'short Mass' and usually contains only a Kyrie and one or two other movements.

The other important type of Mass is the Requiem, and there are many musical settings of this. It is sung at funerals or in services in memory of the dead, but often as a concert work too. The texts misses out the Credo but can add other movements such as the Libera me, In Paradisim and Offertorium. Britten's War Requiem uses settings of poems about the First World War as well, and Brahms' German Requiem uses completely different passages of the Bible and Apocrypha which are not found in normal masses.

We have an article on the Wiki. It may help you, but it certainly could benefit from some contributions for those of you that are knowledgeable on the subject.

-> [[Mass]]

If you don't know what a credo is and how a Catholic/Anglican mass runs, maybe you should look into a mass for your denomination, so you know things about it.

Also, is it a practical mass or a show mass?

Eh, a couple things:

I personally think the "I believe" credo is superior to the Nicene Creed, and it is more than acceptable. And, at least in the Episcopal church, the creed (as any part of the service) is still sometimes chanted or rarely sung.

For a practical mass, check out the S- numbers in the '82 Hymnal.

You might also want to set the Communion prayers, too, since modern masses have communion at almost every service.

I posted this once:

The Mass (as Musical form) has these parts:

Kyrie

Gloria

Credo (some composers skip that part)('cos can be recited)

Sanctus (can be divided in Sanctus and Benedictus)

Agnus Dei

The Kyrie and the Agnus Dei have no very much lyric, Gloria and Credo (the longest), I think they all can be discussed in the same thread, (if we see the necessity, you could open another for the Credo)

This has been said already:

Texts: is all Latin except Kyrie is greek

Kyrie

Kyrie eleison

Christe eleison

Kyrie eleison

Gloria:

Gloria in excelsis Deo.

Et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis. Laudamus te. Benedicimus te. Adoramus te. Glorificamus te. Gratiam agimus tibi propter magnam gloriam tuam. Domine Deus, Rex coelestis, Deus Pater omnipotens. Domine Fili unigenite, Jesu Christe. Domine Deus, Agnus Dei, Filius Patris. Qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis. Qui tollis peccata mundi, suscipe deprecationem nostram. Qui sedes ad dexteram Patris, miserere nobis.

Quoniam tu solus Sanctus. Tu solus Dominus. To solus Altissimus, Jesu Christe. Cum Sancto Spiritu in gloria Dei Patris. Amen.

Credo:

Credo in unum Deum, Patrem omnipotentem, factorem coeli et terrae, visibilium omnium, et invisibilium. Et in unum Dominum Jesum Christum, Filium Dei unigenitum. Et ex Patre natum ante omnia saecula. Deum de Deo, lumen de lumine, Deum verum de Deo vero. Genitum, not factum, consubstantialem Patri: per quem omnia facta sunt. Qui propter nos homines, et propter nostram salutem descendit de coelis. ET INCARNATUS EST DE SPIRITU SANCTO EX MARIA VIRGINE: ET HOMO FACTUS EST. Crucifixus etiam pro nobis, sub Pontio Pilato passus, et sepultus est. Et resurrexit tertia die, secundum Scripturas. Et ascendit in coelum: sedet ad desteram Patris. Et iterum venturus est com gloria, judicare vivos et mortuos: cujus regni non erit finis. Et in Spiritum Sanctum, Dominum et vivificantem: qui ex Patre Filioque procedit. Qui cum Patre et Filio simul adoratur et conglorificatur: qui locutus est per prophetas. Et unam, sanctam, catholicam et apostolicam Ecclesiam. Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. Et exspecto resurrectionem mortuorum. + Et vitam ventura saeculi. Amen.

Sanctus:

Sanctus, Sanctus, Sanctus, Dominus Deus Sabaoth. Pleni sunt coeli et terra gloria tua. Hosanna in excelsis.

Benedictus qui venit in nomine Domini. Hosanna in excelsis

Agnus Dei:

Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi: miserere nobis.

Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi: miserere nobis.

Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi: dona nobis pacem.

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In the traditional Mass form the end of the musical part is that "donna nobis pacem" but there are 4 more sections that must have music in the mass (if you're singing the rest). That's the Entry (the beginning) the Offertory (between the Sanctus and Agnus Dei) the Communion (after the Agnus Dei) and the Exit (the end).

The composers who are Church (Cathedral) Organists (like me) knows perfectly that, ... that's why Janacek added the Intro, the organ solo and the Intrata in the "Glagolitic Mass"

I remember once the Mozart "Crowning Mass" was perfomed in a chuch here, not as a concert but in the mass, (the philarmonic and chorus was excelent) BUT nobody prepared anything for the beginning and the other parts, the Mass started on death-silence, the offertory was bored (just watching the priest doing what he does....in silence too) the communion.... nothing....and the end....nothing.... like all were suddenly got mad and leave.

the existence of pieces like "Entrata Festive" by Floors Peters, are to fill those hollow parts in the classic Mass Musical Form

you may add those thing or keep the classical structure...

First off, the Church would not use a mass written by someone who wasn't Catholic.

If you write it anyway, you must ask yourself why you are doing it? Are you writing it just to use the form, or do you want to write something that would be used nowadays?

If you like I would be willing to guide you in your work. The only thing I ask is that you realize the work you are setting yourself to is a sacred task, and must be approached with the utmost respect. As a fellow Christian I welcome you to the challenge, however as I said before, most of the Church would have adverse reactions to a protestant setting their holy prayers to music. The problem being you don't understand what you are doing, because the prayers serve a purpose in a service. They aren't just music.

I mean, you don't even believe everything in the texts, I'd imagine. So it can be seen as sacrilege.[/i]

I object. The fact that you may not be a devout Catholic, or even a believer at all, does not mean one cannot write religious music which expresses the text, inspires devotion, and is musical. Bach wasn't a Catholic - why then did he write the B minor mass, if not for the musical challenge, and a devotion to the same god in his Protestant faith? Vaughan Williams was openly agnostic, and he wrote not only a Mass but a large quantity of other fine religious works. So were Finzi, Brahms (possibly), John Rutter, Berlioz, Eric Whitacre (yes, really) and many other composers, including myself. I find it difficult to believe that Catholics would have such an objection to a non-Catholic's music being performed - in my country, at least, neither this nor the opposite are true. And I think it's a bit overbearing for David to have to consider his music just in terms of its possible reception by those who place such importance on the religious expression. No offence, but he's just trying to learn how to write music at this stage.

The Church ? .... they don't need to know what are you ....

Only if you go to the church looking like Marylin Manson , well ..... :D

Well, think david ckwee has to deside if he wants to compose a Mass purely as a concert piece or not just that but able to be played within a real mass too.

if is for a real Mass, my points are important, The Intro, Offertory, Communion, Exit.

Unless you want to let those sections to be covered by other people

First off, the Church would not use a mass written by someone who wasn't Catholic.

...

An important thing to consider is whether to write it in a vulgar language, or the sacred Latin. I only have the English version with me, although the Latin versions can be found easily enough on the internet.

...

I mean, you don't even believe everything in the texts, I'd imagine. So it can be seen as sacrilege.

...

* * *

I hope this gives you some idea of how to proceed with your project. From here, it

I know that the Catholic Church as an organization will not COMMISSION a mass from a non-Catholic composer. However, each church within a diocese has the freedom to choose its own music for a service, and some perform the more well-known masses by Protestant and non-Christian composers.

I think if the Mass is 100% liturgical and according to the rules, (not a tiny change in the text) and the music is completely appropiate to the text won't have very much problems ...

A Mass written in Bossa Nova would be rejected even if was written by a catholic person.

The main aspects is to inspire devotion, not distractions, having the Human Soul as a target in harmony and not the human body as a target in rhythm.

Understanding the text, wrinting a ff Santo or the Gloria, making emphasis in what is being said, chosing Major/Minor or a proper harmony for each part, (not like the Dies Irae from Berlioz Requiem that stars soft, singing "Day of Anger" in that way ... and also, not very large, maybe 30 minutes the entire Mass, 20 would easy to accept in a Mass.

A Mass written in Bossa Nova would be rejected even if was written by a catholic person.

Funny you should say that - there's quite a considerable amount of Latin American religious music from the baroque period that does actually use dance rhythms similar to the bossa nova, in addition to Latin percussion instruments. A group called Ex Cathedra released a disk of it a few years back that got plenty of airtime on classical radio.

Hey, Everyone:

A couple of points here, if I may. First, to correct a misconception -- we Catholics do not adore Mary. We hold her in the highest regard as the Mother of God. Adoration is for God alone. It's a common misconception, by the way.

Second, the Tridentine Mass that uses Latin for most of the Liturgy is most certainly not post Vatican II. It is the Mass that was used before the movement in the 60's and 70's toward Masses in the vernacular. Up until recently, a parish could celebrate a Tridentine Mass only with the local Bishop's approval -- approval I might add that was very rarely given. Now, a parish may celebrate the Tridentine Mass if it has a priest who thoroughly knows how to do it, and right now there aren't that many priests familiar enough with the intricate rituals the Mass requires. (This however is changing a bit)

Now because of this trend over the past 40 years toward Masses in the vernacular, I doubt that you will find an average parish willing to use a sung Mass in Latin. Your best bet will be in urban centers or parishes around universities which benefit from a congregation with strong music backgrounds.

I'm just saying that your average congregation will shy away from anything that keeps them in church for more than about 50 minutes. You start singing a Credo in Latin and you will have everyone bolting for the doors before the Eucharist! And the poor priest will certainly get an earful!!

So here's my advice -- which you can take or leave. By all means explore the transcendent richness of the public prayer of the Church -- the Mass. I myself keep being drawn to write something; but the bigger, more complex approaches I come up with I refer to as meditations on the Kyrie, Gloria, etc. That way I can focus on the music in a way that releases me from the practical limitations of a Mass that would be used in a parish setting.

If you choose to try something for actual use in a parish, you might consider something simple for average voices and piano accompaniment. And here, please remember that the music during the Mass is not meant to be a theatrical experience. These are the public prayers of the Church and are to be recited -- or sung -- by everyone. Not just the choir. Otherwise, we remove ourselves from the participation in the sacramental miracle which takes place when Mass is celebrated.

OK. I think I've given enough stuff here. Best of luck with this project. It should be a very, very rewarding experience for you.

Sincerely,

Brian Sagraves

I think if the Mass is 100% liturgical and according to the rules, (not a tiny change in the text) and the music is completely appropiate to the text won't have very much problems ...

A Mass written in Bossa Nova would be rejected even if was written by a catholic person.

The main aspects is to inspire devotion, not distractions, having the Human Soul as a target in harmony and not the human body as a target in rhythm.

Understanding the text, wrinting a ff Santo or the Gloria, making emphasis in what is being said, chosing Major/Minor or a proper harmony for each part, (not like the Dies Irae from Berlioz Requiem that stars soft, singing "Day of Anger" in that way ... and also, not very large, maybe 30 minutes the entire Mass, 20 would easy to accept in a Mass.

Your posts never contribute anything but bullshit. You don't seem to know the first thing about the history of the mass. Have you ever attended?

Homer Ulrich's "A Survey of Choral Music" would do you wonders. Needless to say, your view on the mass historically and currently is nonsense.

Your posts never contribute anything but bullsh*t. You don't seem to know the first thing about the history of the mass. Have you ever attended?

Likewise. :) You happy now?