Symphony No. 1 in C-Minor

JmAY here...

First piece for very large ensemble I'd written. Figured I would post it in the Major Works section.

Scored for:

Piccolo

2 Flutes

Oboe

Clarinet in Eb

2 Clarinets in Bb

Bass Clarinet

2 Bassoons

Contrabassoon

2 Horns in F

2 Trumpets in C

2 Trombones

Tuba

Timpani

Violin 1

Violin 2

Viola

Cello

Contrabass

Piece breakdown:

I-Allegro assai - Symphony No. 1 in C-Minor, I - Allegro assai.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

II-Adagio - Symphony No. 1 in C-Minor, II - Adagio.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

III-Scherzo, Trio - Symphony No. 1 in C-Minor, III - SCHERZO.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

IV-Rondo; Allegro molto - Symphony No. 1 in C-Minor, IV - RONDO.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

PDF- SYMPHONY IN C-MINOR, Op 1. No. 1.pdf - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

Renderings are Garritan Instruments from Finale 2008, I believe.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks,

J

I love it Jmay! It might as well be Beethoven era, though I get the feeling of Bach's organ music, especially in the main them of the Scherzo; all in all very historic. This is an inspiration to me, and it seems like a great place to start with symphonies and orchestration. What was your process like in writing this piece? Do you hope for it to be performed, and do you yourself think highly of it?

Also may I ask how old you are and what it took to arrive at the point of being able to compose as you do now. For me, I think a key point is being a better sight reader; I'm 17 and I've long been contemplating how to start off in writing pieces in a classical style.

I'm sorry I have no critical feed back, having never composed myself. Keep at the symphonies though, I'd love to see your style evolve.

I'd never really given much thought to writing a symphony before. I'd composed for piano since a youngster but not seriously until recently but nothing prepared me for writing and transposing for all those damn instruments.

I remember, it was my 23rd birthday (24 now) and I woke up and said I wanted to write a symphony. From teaching myself piano I learned scales and keys, relative majors and minor, I researched each instrument and range, looked over some scores of classical composers' orchestral works, and jumped right into it.

The first movement definitely was in homage to a certain great composer. The second movement, the longest and my favorite of the four movements, was inspired by the news of my parents separating and later divorcing. I felt the Scherzo was a great way for me to free-form it and just experiment and have fun. The finale was the hardest to write and personally I think the weakest of the four.

Thank you for listening and I hope you get a chance to listen to some of the other things I have and am writing.

JmAY

Just one thought, this is not really a "very large" ensemble. On the contrary, it's rather standard sized for orchestras today.

Also, there's a whole lot more to orchestration than just ranges of instruments. From what little I saw, your orchestration was quite bland and uninteresting. But I will reserve judgement until I have actually listened to the work.

A more thorough review is forthcoming.

I'd never really given much thought to writing a symphony before. I'd composed for piano since a youngster but not seriously until recently but nothing prepared me for writing and transposing for all those damn instruments.

I remember, it was my 23rd birthday (24 now) and I woke up and said I wanted to write a symphony. From teaching myself piano I learned scales and keys, relative majors and minor, I researched each instrument and range, looked over some scores of classical composers' orchestral works, and jumped right into it.

The first movement definitely was in homage to a certain great composer. The second movement, the longest and my favorite of the four movements, was inspired by the news of my parents separating and later divorcing. I felt the Scherzo was a great way for me to free-form it and just experiment and have fun. The finale was the hardest to write and personally I think the weakest of the four.

Thank you for listening and I hope you get a chance to listen to some of the other things I have and am writing.

JmAY

If you think the finale was the weakest then why didn't you fix it? To be fair, I only listened to the first movement and it's okay (would be much better with more exiting orchestration). In my opinion, the finale has to be one of the greatest parts of the symphony, simply because you're trying to end it epically, if you felt it was weak then shouldn't you go back and fix it?

And just like tokkemon said instrumentation is different to orchestration and orchetration can change a symphony from being okay to brilliant.

I will listen to the rest soon and give you feedback ;)

Thanks for the criticism.

Tokke -> At the point I'd written this, I'd never written for any instrument other than piano; I know there is more to orchestration than range, etc...Will work on it more to get mo' betta. Correct/standard orchestration and typical cohesion of timbre and sound between sets/types of instruments isn't something I've been educated on like you and many other's here who are professional or who have studied in college...Not an excuse but definitely something to take into consideration.

kly45 -> The piece was written some time ago and was a birthday present to a friend, was published with CDBaby and is on ITunes. The comment about the finale being the weakest was me thinking in retrospect. Listening to it now, I definitely think it could be better. Maybe I'll rewrite someday, who knows?

Thanks again for the feedback and insight... :-)

I don't think this should be in the major works section, as it's someone's first try at doing something like this. Why not put it in the orchestral forum?

As to the piece, well I don't have anything to say since it's all rather self evident on what it's copying/etc.

Copying? Could you elaborate, SSC?

...as for this being in the major works section, well, it's someone's first try at doing something like this. Why not put it in the orchestral forum?

As to the piece, well I don't have anything to say since it's all rather self evident on what it's copying/etc.

But doesn't that mean that it is ambitious? We all have to start somewhere and if the composer believes he put in a great amount of work then why can't we consider it a masterwork?

But doesn't that mean that it is ambitious? We all have to start somewhere and if the composer believes he put in a great amount of work then why can't we consider it a masterwork?

Eh, I don't care how much effort he put into it. It's just what it is and how it's written.

Copying? Could you elaborate, SSC?

Well the first movement is obviously Vienna classic. The motives, accompaniment figures, bla bla, are all clearly taken from that school of composers. Almost copy pasted in some areas, it sounds like. I mean, it's fine if you really like that style and want to copy it, but I'm hearing just formulas and conventions and not enough original character in it.

The second is better in how it starts and doesn't suffer from sounding auto-pilot style copy like the first. Hell it's almost in an entirely different style altogether and it's much better for it. I mean, you could also ditch some of the Vienna classic conventions like the raw V chords and push the harmony towards Mahler/Wagner/Liszt, it'd be even nicer since it's already kind of ambiguous in how it starts. Sadly later before the reprise comes it still falls a little into the same auto-pilot as the first movement. I get the feeling that it happens usually when you need to extend the length of a section but don't know with what to fill it with so you resort to that.

To be honest it would've been more interesting if you would've kept the ambiguity from the beginning. Another thing that doesn't help is that your orchestration in groups isn't really doing the harmonies any favors. You could try working with different combination of single instruments for those sections. In fact, I'd much rather see a more chamber-music oriented coherency in those segments as it's what it seems to be musically.

The third I don't know why you're labeling it a scherzo considering you're not adhering to any of the forms for it. As you know, a scherzo is nothing but a minuet with a development section instead of a contrasting section, and I don't hear you working the theme in any way except some loose repetitions. But anyway, it's got the same problem as the first movement in that it's all based on formulas and motives that seem to have little to do with you and more with what you think "it should sound like."

The final movt is again the same problem as the first and third, it sounds auto-piloty in a lot of sections. Where's the stuff you were doing in the adagio? I would've liked if you had more coherency in the overall piece considering your adagio is almost an entirely different animal than the rest of the thing. I mean some of it seems to come back if only for real brief moments in the finale but that's no real consequence.

It's all very naive really, and in the sections that seem interesting or that look like you're actually writing out of your own imagination you don't develop it or cut it short with the same autopiloty-classical copy which is a shame. Your instrumentation is, I guess fitting for the style, but again it really doesn't do you any favors.

So really, meh. Sure it's more worked out than a lot of the crap on here, but that's not saying much. Good work though, but I really hope that you get over this phase and explore the stuff that clearly interested you but you didn't go into because you were too busy copying classical composers.

I agree with most of what SSC says. But if you feel you really want to imitate classical composers I see no problem in it other than that you will constantly be compared to them (and you'll most likely seem inferior, unless you one day against all odds manage to outshine them). Not mentioning a lot of contemporary composers will look down on you for not creating something new.

I hate people saying something is impossible, but it would be very hard to write better than Mozart for example. But I do believe there is a market for this kind of music if you stick to it!

I would recommend that you study form and structure more, read as many books you can on composition (specifically form). You will need to mimic everything perfectly to pull it off.

I'm currently studying Schenkerian analysis and using it as a tool when composing really works great (especially if you want to write in the classical style).

I've got to say, the 2nd movement really moved me. The music struck a cord in my heart, and I just absolutely love it. The first movement wasn't as good as the 2nd, in my oppinion, but it was still good (lol if that makes any sense).

First symphony eh? Pretty good.

It's a very... well old style piece. Normal in a way, but not boring. It seems like you have a traditional approach to music.

It's pretty good I think. Just sounds very 200 years ago lol.

And does the name jfmayii sound familiar?

Thanks for the comments, Heck.

Yeah, jfmayii was my screen name here before I had my account deleted (long story).

I reposted it under my new name since it is still my first major work.

Ok wow... ok... I LOVE the Adagio. Seriously, it's awesome.

I've also listened to the first movement, and, while it sounds very nice and kept me listening and interested, it doesn't have the same punch as the second movement has. What you should do is work on your 1st, 3rd, and 4th movements and make the chords and harmonies more on par with the second movement. Do that, and this symphony will be absolutely brilliant! Great job! :)

@Jair !!

Thanks for the reply on the music.

As you mentioned, the 1st, 3rd, and 4th movements were good but not as good as the Adagio. I would agree with you whole-heartedly there. The Adagio was the most original and difficult movement to write of the four. I think I spent more time altogether on that movement what I spend on the other 3 combined. I wrote it last and put the most effort into it. Gaining what little experience I did writing this piece as a whole, I definitely think a re-write is in the works.

J

Someones been listening to a lot of Beethoven...

A good piece.

I only took the time to listen to the first two movements, but I`m glad I did! I think some of the comments you`re receiving are unnecessarily harsh, but that is to be expected anytime you post something of this magnitude - you`ve done something other composers might only be aspiring to at this point (I certainly don`t have the mental facilities to produce anything of this size yet) and their negativity might just be a manifestation of their relative `impotence`, if you will.

Now that I`ve made all kinds of friends :rolleyes: ...

I really enjoyed these two movements. The first couldn`t have been a clearer nod to Ludwig Van, which is fine in my books. It`s hard to find a self-respecting musician who doesn`t appreciate Beethoven`s music, so why not emulate the great! To say this is on the same level as Beethoven would (no offence) be quite an over-statement, but you definitely captured his quality. As stand-alone music, it was...well...nice. It lacked a certain charm, which might be because of the modern context in which we must consider all music - there`s a lot more exciting material out there now, and a lot more groundbreaking material for sure. I also agree that the orchestration was a little too straight forward - I`d recommend trying to add a more contemporary flare to the classical material you have here, maybe spruce things up a bit.

The second movement I enjoyed quite a bit more - sounds a bit less ancient, but still keeps the classical ideals (kind of reminded me of Bruckner, in a toned down sort of way). Your main motive was absolutely stunning - so simple, but so moving, which I find makes for the most effective music. Your development of it was good, but I felt like you kind of ran out of ideas half way through. Also, I kept anticipating a grand restatement of the theme, with all the emotional stops pulled, but it never came. Maybe you don`t want to get quite so intense, but I definitely felt like there was something missing.

That`s my two cents - if I have time, I`ll take a listen to the 3rd and 4th mvmts sometime soon. Good work.

Cheers

Joshua