DJ Fatuus Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Hello. I'm trying to find where renaissance composers took their texts from. I read "scripture and the liturgical texts" but what does this mean, beyond the Bible? For example, I can't find "Salvator mundi, salva nos" anywhere. But there are more I could list. So yes, that is my question: apart from the Latin Bible, whence do motet texts come from? Kind thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawoodruff Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 The largest extent of motets came from biblical sources. However, some composers utilized secular texts as well - like sets of poems etc. A good resource, I found, is the La Trobe Musical Library and Database (La Trobe). Here you will find a vast amount of information regarding medieval songs, motets, etc. Hope you enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Dunn-Rankin Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Some motet texts are not from the Bible, but rather from extra-biblical hymns and prayers. I mean, you won't find the prayer of St. Francis in the Bible, but some renaissance composers set the text; same with St. Augustine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Orpheus Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Hello. I'm trying to find where renaissance composers took their texts from. I read "scripture and the liturgical texts" but what does this mean, beyond the Bible? For example, I can't find "Salvator mundi, salva nos" anywhere. But there are more I could list. So yes, that is my question: apart from the Latin Bible, whence do motet texts come from? Kind thanks. Originally motet texts were all in Latin with liturgical reference, but they didn't have to come straight from the Bible (they could have been written for a specific occasion, for example). Eventually they became secular (really pulled from anywhere, especially erotic poetry) and were sung in the vernacular. Then there is the motet enté, or “grafted” motet, where a text quotation from one voice was put in another. It could also be a motet that quoted another song, usually a refrain from a popular trouvère (a singer of Northern French secular monophony) tune. So in short, motet texts were most often pulled from the Bible, written in connection to the liturgy, written for a specific occasion, taken from poetry (particularly erotic poetry or poems with double entendres), or pulled from popular song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Fatuus Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 The largest extent of motets came from biblical sources. However, some composers utilized secular texts as well - like sets of poems etc. A good resource, I found, is the La Trobe Musical Library and Database (La Trobe). Here you will find a vast amount of information regarding medieval songs, motets, etc. Hope you enjoy! Awesome, that's exactly what I was after! Eventually they became secular (really pulled from anywhere, especially erotic poetry) and were sung in the vernacular. Then there is the motet enté, or “grafted” motet, where a text quotation from one voice was put in another. It could also be a motet that quoted another song, usually a refrain from a popular trouvère (a singer of Northern French secular monophony) tune. So in short, motet texts were most often pulled from the Bible, written in connection to the liturgy, written for a specific occasion, taken from poetry (particularly erotic poetry or poems with double entendres), or pulled from popular song. From the all the diverse definitions of "motet" I can find, they all seem to agree that they were in Latin (with Madrigals being their vernacular equivalent - with vernacular religious works being called mardigali spirituali). Perhaps they're just talking about Renaissance era motets though. I'll take a look into those other motet forms you mention. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeckelphoneNYC Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Just a question.... what exactly is a motet text? :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Orpheus Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 From the all the diverse definitions of "motet" I can find, they all seem to agree that they were in Latin (with Madrigals being their vernacular equivalent - with vernacular religious works being called mardigali spirituali). Perhaps they're just talking about Renaissance era motets though. I'll take a look into those other motet forms you mention. Thanks. Hmm, you may be right. I know that there are medieval motets with vernacular texts (Adam de la Halle wrote some 3-voice motets with French poems in the upper voices), and I assumed this tradition would be carried into the Renaissance. However, Atlas (in his Renaissance Music book) describes the Renaissance motet as a setting of a Latin text. I was thinking more generally; the trouvère music that I mentioned was also a phenomenon of the Middle Ages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Fatuus Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 Just a question.... what exactly is a motet text? :blink: The text of a motet are the words sung in a motet. A motet is a choral work of a religous nature sung in Latin, which reached its peak in the Renaissance period. This is a good motet (sung really slow here for some reason). It's three fugue expositions stuck together: http://www.last.fm/music/Thomas+Tallis/_/Salvator+mundi And the text is: Salvator mundi salva nos, qui per crucem et sanguinem redimisti nos. Auxiliare nobis, te deprecamur Deus noster. Translation Save us, Saviour of the World, who through your cross and blood has redeemed us. Help us, we beseech you, our God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeckelphoneNYC Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 The text of a motet are the words sung in a motet. A motet is a choral work of a religous nature sung in Latin, which reached its peak in the Renaissance period. This is a good motet (sung really slow here for some reason). It's three fugue expositions stuck together: http://www.last.fm/music/Thomas+Tallis/_/Salvator+mundi And the text is: Salvator mundi salva nos, qui per crucem et sanguinem redimisti nos. Auxiliare nobis, te deprecamur Deus noster. Translation Save us, Saviour of the World, who through your cross and blood has redeemed us. Help us, we beseech you, our God. Oh....okay I see now :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLesslin Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Latin texts come from three places as far as I know: Vulgate Bible Latin Liturgy poems and other texts (sorry, no link) that were written in latin or translated into latin. Hope this helps -DeLesslin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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