THE HOLY GRAIL TO MUSICAL UNDERSTANTING!!!!

please dont take much notice of the title to this thred.

i named it the holy grail to lure you in to reading it.but please do read it .because it does talk about understanding what makes music timless and beautiful. it also contains advice on counter point.

if you are a beginner composition student you should definately read it,because it is writen in a way that anyone can understand with analogies to simplify the explination. and if you are more a advanced composer i would love to hear any critisism that you may have about it.

i posted in another section on this site but i think that this is the appropriate place for it.

THE BIGGER PICTURE

Every composer would love to write music (in his, her preferred style) that will sound as if it were written by GOD, or to put it another way ,music that becomes TIMELESS!!! Something that will still capture the mind and heart of people in even a thousand years from now. But first we have to understand what makes music subjectively beautiful and or timeless. What do I consider to be timeless music??.Bethovens

Hmm, a lot of typing....

Every composer would love to write music (in his, her preferred style) that will sound as if it were written by GOD,[/b]

Hey, wait a minute....!

Until then just work with what you have and keep piling the bodies in the basement.

and here i was thinking this would be a monty python based thread ;)

Holy frig! I'm not reading all that

:sadtears:

Ouch, Wall of Text.

China called. They want their wall back.

HAHA....it's true.

Must be his doctoral thesis or something...

this just caught my eye though:

The hardest thing for a composer to do is to create that very first KILLER idea(theme).

I disagree. The first idea is easy. Bundling it up in a nice, presentable piece is the problem...

ALSO, it doesn't have to be a theme at all - the KILLER idea can be a rhythmic motive, chord voicing, root movement, or even as simple as a sound.

Building something KILLER from a simple. basic idea is where you find the art.

I would disagree with you there Robin. I can come up with all manner of mediocre ideas but a KILLER idea takes some time. That idea could be anything you described there.... a voicing, root movement, melody, or sound.

I think you can take ANY idea, they ALL have potential to be KILLER..

Anything...

I believe the simplist and most basic concept can (in the right hands) be developed into a KILLER piece.

Sure, some are easier to use than others, but I still feel that a simple 2-note motive is as valid a KILLER idea as a profoundly well-thought-out idea. It's just about perspective and how you approach it.

I'm all about simplicity and directness.

True.... I was listening to the brahms C minor piano quartet and the first movement is a two note motive taken to the extreme....

...So I'll say this... getting the most killer output from an idea is the hard part.

... getting the most killer output from an idea is the hard part.

Agreed!

:mellow:

True.... I was listening to the brahms C minor piano quartet and the first movement is a two note motive taken to the extreme....

More like a pair of intervals than a two-note motive - the whole movement is built on half steps and perfect 4ths, so the Eb-D, C-F line not too far in is really the main motive that it's built on.

But the point remains the same: it's not exactly a killer motive, it's the way Brahms spins a whole movement out of it that makes the piece great.

Likewise, the score I most recently looked at was Borodin's Prince Igor overture. And surprise, surprise - the entire overture is based on exactly two melodic ideas: one is 1-2-3-1 in a major key, and the other is simply a major scale. The memorable horn solo? Just a dressed-up descending major scale, as it turns out, and yet it's a very compelling melody in its context...

lazy bastards ...

read it maybe there is something productive you can get out of it.

That was hilarious on so many levels. All the more so because the hilarity was unintentional. It also contained some informitave theory and musical philosophy. Great thread handshakes all 'round.

*chokes from dust from old thread*

The shortest answer that I can give is that they all are a PERFECT PROPORTIONAL BALANCE OF UNITY AND VARIETY.

That's basically what Aaron Copland said, that music should be 50% expected and 50% unexpected.

yes... but how does all this relate to music? I think we have another Schoenberg on our hands ;/