Symphony #3 in A major

Ah. Couldn't remember, but thought I'd seen at least high-A in orchestral violin parts. Of course, in the violin concerti and the Sinfonia Concertante, Mozart takes the solo fiddle up a good deal higher (at least E-flat above double-high C)...but that's for soloists. Vivaldi goes high, too.

Oooo... second movement at about 2:19.... I like. I find it hard to get those types of transitions to work in my music. Bravo. You've got a really tight style and I envy it.

Oooo... second movement at about 2:19.... I like.

Cool! :D One of my favourite moments in the whole piece, and the last thing I wrote in the whole symphony...I'd been considering inserting that section, but hadn't decided until I finished the finale.

Thanks for the comment. The word "tight" has been used to describe my style and technique a lot, and I'm glad that comes through.

All I have to say is that this piece is one of the most excellently crafted recent work I've seen. The whole thing fits together as well as any mature Mozart or Haydn symphony, and, furthermore, I think you're definitely finding your own voice here. It's certainly a solid piece of music, and I can't offer any negative criticism about it. All I can suggest is that for your next symphony (or whatever work you're planning on writing soon) is to push the envelope just a little more. Make the violins play just a little higher, make the horns call out a few more times, expand your orchestra. I'm just saying that because it's what I'd do myself. Even so, I think you have an incredibly solid foundation from which you can take your music anywhere you please. Thanks for a great listening experience! ;)

Thank you for the fine compliments. What you suggest is exactly what I plan to do. I'm not one to go too far with a project I'm not ready for, so I'm usually conservative with what I attempt - I have enough failures - which is one reason my symphonic work so rar has been scored for modest forces. Authenticity is also a major concern; I'm more a revivalist than a "neo." This 3rd symphony is just about as "big" a piece as a 1770s orchestra can handle. It's time to try something more ambitious and stretch myself a bit.

Thanks again, Reese, and welcome to the forum! ;)

G'day Lee. Listened to your symphony today and decided to get Notepad out and and make a few comments. Not an in depth analysis, mind you, just a scant few thoughts and feelings I got listening to your music. Consider these from a listeners point of view only - I don't do music critiques but really listen to music with a simple attitude. Does it interest? Do I want to yawn? Does it move me? Does it offend? Does it sound awkward or contrived? That sort of thing. A good deal of what I would say has already been said by others in this thread. But just a few comments...

Overall: Your music is very enjoyable, interesting and, for the most part, keeps the listener's attention. Dynamics are well considered and in some places really make the music sing with expression.

The influence of Mozart is obvious - and this isn't a bad thing at all. If I were in L.A and I heard that a symphony was going to preformed by you, I'd come because overall I am enjoying it. Keep that in mind because I have a few negative comments.

Mov1

58secs - 1:01

Loved the expression in these moments and when you repeat it at 2:40 and at 5:30

The slowing of the tempo and what you've done at 6:18-6:28 - I don't know - but I'd reconsider it. Outside of the tempo change, it doesn't add much interest, the tempo change isn't sustained long enough to get the listener accustomed to it, and it seems to drag the energy of this movement a bit.

This is just a personal taste issue - but I think you overuse the 4note straight 16th figure(or 8 or 12 depending on where the melody goes) on the melody a bit. I tire of it in some of Mozart's music too. I'm not sure if there is a term for this..but for instance 5:52-6:14 the top strings play it throughout.

Mov 2

2:18

Nice contrasting theme and interplay between the wind and strings. I really liked this and the movement overall. This and Mov 4 are my favourites.

Mov 3

Overall - solid. Perhaps a little rigid in strict adherence to the form I'm hearing. This is not at all un-interesting - but it could be more interesting.

Mov 4

Ooh....very nice opening and contrasting themes! I loved them each time you repeated them throughout the peice. That crescendo really gives a whoooop feeling (I'm not looking at the score, just listening - the place I'm hearing it now is at 6:09)

This is good music Lee. If I were in L.A. and I heard that a symphony of yours was going to be played - I'd certainly come and listen. Is it published/copywrite protection? Make sure it is, and if in your immediate circle you can't get a symphony director to preform it, use garritan personal orchestra or something similiar, record it, and shop around for conductors who might.

This is a nice piece! I remember writing my last piece for orchestra and it was a killer (unfortunately, I had about 7 days to write it - it was fun, don't you worry).

There are really two ways to view this piece: in terms of its own musical value, or how it'd do in competitions. In my experience, when I submitted things that sounded mozart-y or bach-ish, I never did extremely well. However, when I wrote things that rubbed on the edge of atonal yet still had a motif, I did much better.

Just a thought.

As a consequence, I've come to appreciate new music in the hardcore stereotypical 'classical' genre less than I do music by people like Penderecki.

The 2nd movement is one of the most beautiful pieces I have heard in a long time. Very well done.

Thanks guys.

Vdot, that 2nd movement is fast becoming one of my favourite works of mine. Glad you share the sentiment.

Well folks, two years have come and gone since I completed this symphony. I have a probable performance coming up next season with myself at the baton, which has prompted me to dust this off and make a few minor revisions; those of you familiar with the piece probably won't notice a difference at all.

I also created new mp3s with GPO, which my partner pulled into ProTools and fiddled with to make a markedly superior mix to what would be possible in Finale's distinctly limited "studio."

The links to the new mp3s are in the initial post at the top of the thread, hosted by SoundClick.

Hope you enjoy, and I'm always open to comments and suggestions.

Well J.

I have to say that this is wonderful and very true to you! Which is only excellent! You know how I love contemporary music and I advocate on behalf, but here I am admiring your symphony!

I would have NO trouble at all, listening to the live version (although the GPO version, if these are the links in the first post, is very good), along with every other piece of classical music. And here you are prooving single handily that there is a market for classical music written today!

On a personal level (thus subjective) I find that I would never go about writing something like this. I feel it's been done already. And I do recall a PM exchange with you, in the older times about this issue. But this is you, and not me! So you have every right to love what you do and get the performance of your life! :)

I will mention that some movements linger a bit too long (for my taste again) to the same tonality, but I think that this is indicative of a certain era (Mozart for example, or Haydn even better), in which case... yay! :D

In all, everything is allowed in music, it's your creative baby and you've managed to (probably) get a live performance out of this! So excellent job overall!

Glad to have clicked on the links and heard the music. Now, if only I could get my hands to the scores as well (which don't seem to be around anywhere...)

Haha, wow. I've waited two years to hear this again. As made abundantly clear by my insanely fawning comment on the first page, I'm quite a fan of this piece. The craftsmanship is nothing short of exceptional, and I still find the material very poignant - the finale throws the listener about somewhat, and the second movement takes on a more gradual, persuasive characteristic.

It's nice to hear everything rendered through GPO, although the signature "slow attack" strings weren't too kind to the third movement (I think I detected some revisions here, mainly owing to the fact that the theme has been subconsciously stuck in my head all this time). They worked well in the second movement, however. But this is a moot point provided you do get your performance. I sincerely hope you do.

Thanks for sharing (again), I look forward to hearing the live recording!

Thanks, Gents, for the kind words.

Ooh...I forgot all about the scores. I'll get on that forthwith, either tonight or tomorrow. All I really have to do make sure they're reasonably neat and make pdf files.

Nikolas: There does appear to be a small but growing market for historicist music lately. Some of my colleagues at Vox Saeculorum are getting performances regularly and even marketing their music. It was bound to happen eventually. This does not mean that modern expressions in music are ever going away - not by a long shot - and who would want that to happen anyway? This is what I've been arguing about forever: as you say, everything is allowed in music, and to quote one of the people on Vox, "there is room in the air for all of it".

Mike: It is occasionally a pity about GPO's "slow attack" - I do find it annoying now and again - but compared to general MIDI, which I had come to accept as the best I could do, it's a godsend overall; and I gather the 2008 version is well worth the upgrade.

More importantly than anything, I'm again gratified that the piece has brought enjoyment.

hi there :)

Very nice job, all the movements have their particular character, and melodies are defined very well too, but I think that sometimes it goes a bit too fast, especially in the first movement, if it were for flutes that was OK, but with the oboes at that speed, you would need great soloists to play it that fast.. but without a score, I can't tell much.

Other than that, I have nothing more to say, it is a very good and enjoyable work :D

-Guglielmo

"Next season"? At what venue?

without a score, I can't tell much.

Which is why I have now attached the score.

I think that sometimes it goes a bit too fast, especially in the first movement, if it were for flutes that was OK, but with the oboes at that speed, you would need great soloists to play it that fast

This isn't the first time I've heard that comment. The first movement could possibly stand to ease up a little in live performance. That's the tempo I heard it in my head, though. The oboe part is tricky there in that one spot, I'll grant, though one hears parts like that in period music from time to time, when the composer knew who his oboist was and what he was capable of. The horn part is what really concerns me though, as it was written for a natural horn; all those notes in the solo are "possible" for a capable player, though they were used quite sparingly because some require special techniques and are difficult to get in tune. I'd like to consult a natural horn player about it sometime.

"Next season"? At what venue?

At Los Angeles Pierce College, where the San Fernando Valley Symphony performs. I'll post a notice when and if it gets programmed.

I myself may be the one who keeps it from happening. While I really like this piece - I think it may be my best work so far - I find it difficult to defend what I do in it by the principles I've espoused all my life, i.e. if you're going to be an historicist, you'd better do it authentically. I employ my forces as any Classicist would have done, except that some of the material sounds like it might have been written in the 1830s. That technically might make it ersatz or pastiche, and I have a problem with that kind of inconsistency.

I dunno. We'll see.

I employ my forces as any Classicist would have done, except that some of the material sounds like it might have been written in the 1830s. That technically might make it ersatz or pastiche, and I have a problem with that kind of inconsistency.

I dunno. We'll see.

Music is just music. I would get it performed, if I were you.

Btw, I love the new recordings - works especially well on the last movement; the first seems a little 'muddier'. Still a fantastic piece - congratulations.

(I really do love the last movement - I just feel that the fugato doesn't really lead into anything - maybe I'm wanting more development, I don't know.)

I really do love the last movement - I just feel that the fugato doesn't really lead into anything - maybe I'm wanting more development, I don't know

I know exactly what you mean, and I like and dislike that very quality of the fugato in equal degrees, Daniel; it seems almost too short to be of any real consequence except as a momentary diversion, yet if I were to take off with it (and I could, cheerfully) the movement might feel off balance. As it is, I changed the 'cello/bass entrance to make it conform to traditional fugal rules and added several measures. I may fiddle with it some more. I have time.

the first seems a little 'muddier'

Interesting. You may be right. I'm not sure how that would have happened, because all the settings were identical to the other movements. Perhaps something got tweaked in ProTools.

Nice neo-Classicism...like Haydn in the 21st century, but changed with a bit of novelty, and good, very good. Neo-Classicism might get bad rap, but contemporary music is too dissonant to me, so its nice to hear something in the vein I try to write in, although, with no pride or authorized criticism to my own music, mine is more middle romantic. You probably already know this, but Poulenc wrote some good neo-Classicist stuff too that might interest you, maybe Dialogues des Carmelites?

Again, nice to hear someone composing well and successfully in comprehensible idiom.

Thanks for the comments, Symphony. I'm always interested in any new historicist music, so I'll be on the lookout for yours.

Odd as it may seem, I was not aware that Poulenc dabbled in neo-Classicism. That might be something to explore, though I wonder whether I would care for it. I tend to be a stickler for authenticity (if you're going to do it, do it right), and I doubt whether that was very important to Poulenc. Still, might be interesting.

Thanks again.

I won't comment on the music directly, since your gift as a composer extends far beyond my own, but I can say that I enjoyed every note you have given us to hear. This is one of the most coherent and mature works I have heard in a while. I just got such a sense of grand structure in this, that everything was carefully planned to convey what you wanted to do with your masterwork. You certainly have a sense of the style you were writing for, and I applaud that you kept to it instead of presenting a history book with teh dates all jumbled around.

I enjoyed this as much as I've heard the works of Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn, and the like. I'm flattered that you would decide to stick around along with some of the more experienced composers on this site to share your wonderful talent and superb understanding of music. I applaud you.

Vince

P.S. shhhh....don't tell anyone, but I got teary-eyed hearing the 2nd movement ;)

I think you already know my thoughts on revivalism in music, however, yes this IS a very well-written piece of music. Touches of Mendelssohn more than anything else. It doesn't feel "neo" anything to me. Sounding a bit like "Mendelssohn doing the Mozart thing", it sounds a bit outdated in its outdatedness.

I so wish you would move forward a tiny bit both harmonically and melodically... at least into the beginning of the 20th century. You have great musical ability, and a wonderful deft touch with the colours you use. I'd just prefer if it reflected the reality we live in a tiny bit more.

Even our forum administrator, Chopin, appears to have moved forward a bit in his harmony, with touches of impressionsim creeping into his vocabulary. Maybe I can hope that something will set you off exploring a bit more, as well.

You know I am quite firmly tonal in my own music, and belong to a group of contermporary composers who are trying to keep tonal music alive and relevant, so please don't take this as "another of those modernists ranting".

This music doesn't sound relevant to me, even if it is quite beautiful.

Needless to say, this is a very difficult topic for me (and for you, if I recall correctly), and is an issue I've been grappling with for 20 years, since I first exited the halls of academe.

I suppose it depends whether one considers 'relevance' and originally to be more important criteria for composition than beauty. I'd like to ask you a question though, QcCowboy: do you need to know the century in which a work was composed in order to decide whether you enjoy it?

This isn't the place to start this discussion.

Well said. Sorry.