Chorale: Now Thank We All Our God

Hi everyone! :wub:

I know its been a while, and I apologize for my .... ahem ...year of absence. First year of college can do that sort of thing to you - busy, busy, busy!!!

Anyway, things have been going well, so well that I managed to put together a decent sized ensemble of instrumenstalists and singers in January to record a piece of mine. Take a listen and tell me what you think.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=430217

The first track is a 4 part arrangment of the hymn "Now Thank We All Our God" (second verse), and the second track is an expansion of the hymn, with each line of the chorale recieving a "fugal treatment", separated by orchestral ritornelli in between.

Keep in mind that the preparation time for the recording was extremely minimal (basically two rehearsals prior to the recording session), so try not to nitpick on the perfomance.

I will appreciate any comments or criticisms! :wub:

EDIT: I have just read the guidelines for this forum and am now providing the required MIDI files of the piece, however, do note that many small alterations were made for the recording which I have not updated in the MIDI score (nothing too drastic).

The Baroque Enthusiast

NOW7.mid

2NOW3.mid

I listened to both and thought they were pretty Good

the recording was a 1000 times better than the midi

Good job

:)

Thank you, Carulli_Guitar.

Just a word about the midi: the notation is mostly bare-bones, features some odd quirks (the bass is doubled in octaves), and doesn't have any continuo realization. Basically, don't bother with the midi if you aren't going to follow the recording along with the score. -BE

:P Enough said.

Thank you, Invisionary.

I'd still appreciate any extended commentary or criticism, if anyone is interested!

:D wow, really great stuff! loved both but the bigger work is of course much more impressive. a flawless piece, just a pity that the recording is so low quality, for many parts cannot be heard making for an unbalanced whole, and there is a general lack of fire to it. the midi at least allows for us to hear every note and figure a perfect performance in the mind. anyway congrats for this skilled and beautiful job! keep composing!

This is a very interesting work, but does not unfortunately show off many of your own personal talents. Unless, of course, your name is Johann Sebastian Bach. I had to keep reminding myself that this was written not in the 1700's but only a short time ago. You'll get many compliments for the way you wrote it, but it doesn't sound at all to me like you added any part of yourself into it. I could be wrong, of course, and you may have composed this entirely using your own well crafted motifs and style, but it sounds like you emulate the baroque period more than writing in your own style. It was a fantastic performance, and a well formulated piece, don't get me wrong there. Spend some time on a piece and try to make it sound like no piece you've ever heard. It is there you will find your own personal style.

Ooooh... I'm impressed; first question: is that a real harpsichord? Second question: Had you just been listening to Zion Hort Die Wachtern Singen? :thumbsup:

How long did this take to write? And who did the mixdown and mastering of the recording? They need a slap... :s

This is a very interesting work, but does not unfortunately show off many of your own personal talents. Unless, of course, your name is Johann Sebastian Bach. I had to keep reminding myself that this was written not in the 1700's but only a short time ago. You'll get many compliments for the way you wrote it, but it doesn't sound at all to me like you added any part of yourself into it. I could be wrong, of course, and you may have composed this entirely using your own well crafted motifs and style, but it sounds like you emulate the baroque period more than writing in your own style. It was a fantastic performance, and a well formulated piece, don't get me wrong there. Spend some time on a piece and try to make it sound like no piece you've ever heard. It is there you will find your own personal style.

This is a very interesting work, but does not unfortunately show off many of your own personal talents. Unless, of course, your name is Johann Sebastian Bach. I had to keep reminding myself that this was written not in the 1700's but only a short time ago. You'll get many compliments for the way you wrote it, but it doesn't sound at all to me like you added any part of yourself into it. I could be wrong, of course, and you may have composed this entirely using your own well crafted motifs and style, but it sounds like you emulate the baroque period more than writing in your own style. It was a fantastic performance, and a well formulated piece, don't get me wrong there. Spend some time on a piece and try to make it sound like no piece you've ever heard. It is there you will find your own personal style.

Pardon me, but I have to take issue with this.

There is plenty of room for the development of a "personal style" while keeping up the rigours of the Baroque idiom, and I think our friend here does a wonderful job of it.

It does NOT sound like he's trying to emulate Bach, but instead developing a personal style that is heavily influenced by J.S., fully Baroque, yet still subtly contemporary. The only thing that makes work like this "wrong" in the eyes of people today (and in my opinion, the snobs) is that the 18th century is dead and buried and we ought to keep it that way.

I'm working to change that, as many of you are already well aware.

I'm listening to the live recording for a second time...

I bow and humble myself before thee, for truly, thou art a master of the highest magnitude. ;)

Thank you, Invisionary.

I'd still appreciate any extended commentary or criticism, if anyone is interested!

Well, since you asked...

There are a very few things that I'd have done differently had I been writing this, but I really don't think it's appropriate or necessary to elaborate. They're matters of personal taste and have nothing to do with the actual technical part of the writing.

I've listened to it four times now and four things come to mind immediately:

1. This is top-notch stuff.

2. Write more.

3. Get a better orchestra (heck, what am I complaining about--I can't even get an orchestra!)

4. The singing is OK, but the pronunciation is too "Midwestern".

In response to Nightengale Incorporated:

While I understand you may feel that I'm inhibiting "my voice" by adhereing to the structure of a Baroque chorale "prelude", I can't share that view with you. I live and breath this music, and feel that my best means for expression, even when I improvise, are that of the Baroque. It is my voice. I thank you for your compliments, and your advice (even though I do not wholly agree with it).

In response to Illarane:

1) yes, its a real harpsichord (and i had the pleasure of playing it for this recording); 2) if you mean the 4th mvt. of cantata 140, then of course!! but I'm not sure how much that particular piece influenced the creation of this one; and finally 3) the actual composition was completed about 4 days after I started with it. My organ instructor was interested in seeing a piece of mine, and I made it my business to have a copy of the score in his hands the next time I saw him, which wound up being about a week later. As for the recording, I'm still awaiting a cleaned up copy: the person who did the work has way too many other projects for this to be at the top of his priority list.

In response to bakhtiyar:

Thanks for the support. Though I doubt my credibilty as "master of the highest magnitude", I appreciate your sharp defense.

Phew...........thats all for now. ;)

I'm neither a snob, nor am I one to state that the 18th century is dead. There is much to be learned from the legends who came before us. My statements were made quite harshly, and for that I am deeply sorry, but I have never been fond of the Baroque or Neo-Baroque periods. It always sounds to me as if they are simply trying to compose like Bach. Which is foolish, of course, because Bach is a composer unto which there is no equal. I appreciate your abilities to write in this fashion, and no doubt it is painstakingly precise for it to sound so authentic. It simply does not evoke a personal taste in me, and I simply don't hear the composers voice in this work (unless he's singing, of course ;) ). Instead, I hear a work that may or may not have been written by any of a number of Baroque composers. I'm sorry if this comment is taken the wrong way, I'm just not partial to this style of writing.

I'm sorry if this comment is taken the wrong way, I'm just not partial to this style of writing.

Well, now that's a different story. I understand and respect that totally.

BTW, while I disagreed with you earlier post, the "snob" comment wasn't directed at you personally, but at a collective group who are very vocal in their belief that writing this way is "wrong".

Your comments were relatively mild.

nor am I one to state that the 18th century is dead.[/b]

Well, actually, I'm the one who misspoke there. Of course the 18th century is dead and buried. But I think the techniques, the aesthetic principles, the musical language if you will, are just as relevant today as they were then. And I think there's room to develop them with the tools we have at our disposal in the 21st century.

Should we be deprived of writing in an idiom that comes most naturally to us just because we happened to miss the boat by a few hundred years? I'm not looking to supplant, suppress, or otherwise create a stir. I do, however, want people like me to be taken at least marginally seriously instead of being relegated to the realm of anachronistic freak show.

I think there's a lot we can learn (and pardon the hubris, but there's really no other way to say it) as baroque composers from more contemporary musical movements. Just as contemporary composers took their inspiration from old and wrote pieces that are now called neobaroque, I think that it will eventually be that we can interpret modern genres through our thoroughly Baroque musical mindset, turning out works that are, in effect, contemporary Baroque.

In short,

Neobaroque = contemporary music with a baroque twist

contemporary Baroque = baroque music with a contemporary twist

To BE: Don't doubt it. It's the truth. From what I've heard so far, you're better at this than I am. And if my estimation is correct, you're quite a bit younger than me.

I've been browsing these forums for quite a while and this is one of the first things here I can truly say I like.

You did well. As far as thinking baroque music is dead, I don't see how any music can be dead. It is all a matter of preference, and I prefer the baroque style more than any other.

I also think any contrapuntal music in the style of Bach, by its sheer complexity, can be highly stylistic while retaining the original baroque sound.

Pardon me, but I have to take issue with this.

There is plenty of room for the development of a "personal style" while keeping up the rigours of the Baroque idiom, and I think our friend here does a wonderful job of it.

It does NOT sound like he's trying to emulate Bach, but instead developing a personal style that is heavily influenced by J.S., fully Baroque, yet still subtly contemporary. The only thing that makes work like this "wrong" in the eyes of people today (and in my opinion, the snobs) is that the 18th century is dead and buried and we ought to keep it that way.

I'm working to change that, as many of you are already well aware.

and again I agree with bakhtiyar

First I would like to thank you for sharing your music with us.

To me it sounded more like late 16th century; more like a madrigal with a baroque harpsichord on the table.

I do hear your voice in this piece, and reviewing some of the comments posted in here , I don't see bach in this piece.

Have a good day.

javileru

Well, here's my analysis...

The choral concertato sections are very Handelian.

The orchestral ritornelli seem to have a mixed influence. Again, at its most fundamental, it's Handelian. But the texture, the orchestration, shows off the Italianate side of Bach.

The counterpoint is more Handel than Bach. It has an Anglo-Italian-German character to it. The French influence, which pervades so much of Bach and, to a lesser extent, Handel, is conspicuously absent.

It has a Vivaldian drive to it. If I had to name an actual 18th century figure that would have written this, Zelenka comes to mind.

And then there's just something very fresh, very contemporary, about the whole thing. Very profound and moving.

Nice continuo realization.

Thank you javileru, Kefienzel, and bakhtiyar for your insight!

It has a Vivaldian drive to it.

I'm so glad someone noticed!! It was certainly the "concept" I was going for, and I think thats what makes it feel fresh: the piece never feels too dense, even with all of the the counterpoint in the voices.

And, finally...

I don't know if any of you ever hear a piece and think, "Gee, I wish I'd written that one."

That's what I think when I hear this.

Hi there BE,

That's some good stuff you got going there. I can't remember if I replied in this thread or in an old one you may never see, but I'm one of the composers who's listed at the Vox Saeculorum site and was told by Mark to check out your music. NICE JOB! I look forward to seeing/hearing more of your music in the future.

Grant Colburn

p.s. Like you said and I completely agree this certainly can be and IS your primary musical voice. I for one wouldn't consider it to be an imitation of Bach or any particular composer. It is YOU being you just as Bach was Bach, Handel was Handel, and Greene was Greene...

It wouldn't make any sense to study one particular person from a time period alone....

Thanks a lot, Grant! You comments are well appreciated! :)

Excellent work. I felt it was a bit too choppy though. The music was nice harmonically, but it lacked the fluidity of other baroque music. It reminded me more of Vivaldi than Bach. Not necessarily a bad thing, but the mood you created contradicted the execution. Masterful use of the flute, and also very good voice writing, although the it felt less choral than it did just voices acting as instruments. The voice is special...make it feel special in the music :). (plus the singing wasn't amazing lol not your fault).

Hmmmm, I dunno. There's a lot of non "fluid" baroque music in existence as well. If one limits one's listening to the top 5 or 6 composers of an almost 140 year time frame one is missing a lot of the variety that was truly present during the baroque period. To my ears BE's work had a lot in common with a more English style of writing, part of that of course coming from purely choosing to use English for the singers :-) That said though it definitely had a vibe much in common with Handel and Purcell etc.

And though perhaps the singing wasn't dead on flawless I admire that such a recording as this exists at all. I certainly know from experience that I never had the number of people involved to pull off the recording take any kind of interest in my baroque music when I was in school, let alone being able to organize them, rehearse them and get a recording made.

It all had to take a lot of work and the result is great. Live performance of new period music is DEFINITELY the way to go.

By the way BE have you checked out the MP3's of Miguel Robaina's ensemble playing his music at:

http://www.voxsaeculorum.org/roster.htm

Its the live performance that makes this new old music truly live!

Again I look forward to hearing more stuff soon!

grant

To N.S. Canzano:

I mean structurally and harmonically flowing. Technically, he used very proper baroque mechanisms, but it thinned out the harmony in its exactity and left out other parts, thus its not "fluid" harmonically.

Well, because the soprano is holding the C.F., a lot of the choral segments are just ATB with basso continuo. Perhaps thats why you felt the harmony was thinning out. I'm not sure how that would make the piece less fluid though. Please elaborate!

To grantco:

It all had to take a lot of work and the result is great. Live performance of new period music is DEFINITELY the way to go.

Exactly! Baroque music in general has had a history of being neglected at my university. Only in the past few years has there been a real renewed interest in it. Thanks for your lucid insight.