Pie Jesu

Since I'm in A-Capella choir at my school, we were given this song to sing for our next concert. I have arranged it (or rather, transposed) for 2 Horns, 2 Trumpets, 2 Trombones, 1 Bass Trombone, 1 Tuba. I am very pleased with the outcome!

Pie Jesu

This piece is also in dedication to my dad. The person that wrote this piece wrote it for his father just three years after his passing to show that he loves him. That's why I transposed this piece to my dad, to show that I care about him and that I love him very much. Enjoy ^_^

Nice work. You put the voices in very comfortable areas of the horns and the voicings themselves are appropriate.

You really, really need to add slurrings, articulations, and expressive markings. In a setting of text to instruments, unless you have truly breathed new life into form and fashion of the musical material, your work in an arrangement of this type is to do the homework. Figure out what these brass instruments would have to do to sound like a choir. That means articulations, expressions, and slurs. :)

Also consider adding phrase markings in addition to the slurs. It is a lyrical piece, after all.

I believe it is conventional for trumpets to be before french horns in a brass choir. In orchestra and band order it's the opposite (which is why I assume you did it this way).

Aaaand one last item. Break your eighth note beams into 2 + 2 + 2 + 2. You shouldn't be beaming four eighth notes together in 4/4 time, particularly a piece this slow with a pickup note built into the melody.

Thanks for sharing! :phones: Keep it up. I look forward to more uploads.

Very nice arrangement Jess! In response to Peter's comment about articulations and slurs, he took the words out of my mouth. You have an understanding of chords and dynamics, but you do not indicate whether or not a player should emphasize a note or whether or not or whether they should be legato or staccato with their articulations. Now the Horns being before Trumpets in the score doesn't mean anything, it looks like you used Finale to do this, and they always arrange parts like that, so i wouldn't worry about that. Same thing with the beaming four eigth notes together, Finale does not allow you to break up beams (at least not to my knowledge). So keep composing, but start to incorporate more complex phrases and, pretty please, articulations!

Just because Finale does it, doesn't make it right. ;) The order and beamings can (and should) be fixed.

It doesn't matter what order they're in on a score, it's just a piece of paper. Besides, it's not Jess is publishing this piece for public use or anything. Same thing with the beams, I don't know how they can be broken up on Finale, if you are a user, then maybe you can enlighten me on how to do it. But i'm not sure why you think they should be broken up, it doesn't help the musician at all i'm pretty sure they can count how many notes there are in a beam if you think it's not "characteristic" of slow songs, that's your own idea and you can use it whenever you want.

Nothing on a score matters. It's all ink and toner on paper. My suggestions are solely intended to help Jeneca to produce a professional-looking score. It's up to her to decide to implement them, or ignore them. Jeneca hasn't specified what (if anything) she intends on doing with this piece. Don't knock valid suggestions just because you wouldn't do them.

The beaming issue is not my own idea, it's conventional notation. In simple time signatures, you want to beam notes so they clearly represent every macrobeat. In 2/2, that would be four eighth notes. In 2/4, 3/4, 4/4, etc. it would be two eighth notes. I understand your desire to maintain a sense of practicality in the discussion, but please don't drag this on any longer; it's a simple, small thing and I do know what I'm talking about.

Jeneca, if I wrote a piece just for the heck of it, I'd probably ignore me, too. But the more often you engrave things incorrectly, the more habitual it becomes. And bad habits makes doing things correctly a huge pain.

In Finale, simple entry (and speedy entry, IIRC) you push "/" on the note after the place you want broken. Don't know how it works in Sibelius or any other notation program.

In Sibelius u cant break the eith note bars apart ive tried and it simply wont work so thts y i have the eith notes the way they are. I hope i can use this piece(with a lil more work im sure) and submit it 2 solo/ensemble 4 brass choir. At first it wuz just 4 fun but now that i think about it, it wud be an amazing piece 2 play in solo/ensemble and im sure 2 get great results with enough practice of course

I'm certain you can break beams in sibelius. It's such a basic function, I'd lose all faith in humanity if Sibelius could not do that. :lol:

Good luck!

Yes, Sibelius can do that.

A couple of points relating to brass writing -

Your horn parts are quite high (though not uncomfortably so) and you don't use the lower register at all. Horns are best thought of as alto instruments and are very effective at 'filling in' or providing soft reinforcement to an ensemble (possibly why they're a member of both wind and brass ensembles). Although you do provide some rests, non-professional players in particular would find these parts somewhat tiring to play, and by not using the lower register you deprive yourself of a useful colouristic and dynamic resource. Of course, you may wish to disregard this if you particularly want the high horn timbre. Also, why at the climax of the second verse in bars 16-18, do you have the horns drop out? If anything you should be adding instruments here to orchestrate the crescendo, particularly as horns can play the previous phrases quietly better than the other brasses can.

Be careful with doubling. If you have a look at the same bars I mentioned a moment ago, and also 22-24, you have both trombones playing the same inner part, together, but with only a single trumpet on the tune. This might be fine if the trumpet melody was rhythmically more prominent than the other parts, but the texture is homophonic and there is a danger of the trumpet being overpowered. Trombones and trumpets never need doubling unless the ensemble is at a very loud dynamic or you need the effect of multiple instruments, and certainly not on subordinate parts. The same goes for the bass trombone and tuba, which play almost the same thing all the way through.

I think in general you could make this more interesting and varied by 'saving' members of the ensemble. Why not have a verse just for the trombones/tuba, possibly with the horns joining at the climax? When a trumpet re-enters, it will sound fresher than if it has been playing for the entire piece, as if pretty much does here. This is also a good way of achieving dynamics - if you orchestrate them, then half of the performer's work is done for them already.

oh well idc, it doesnt really matter if i can break them or not itll still sound the same either way. also, im definitely gonna take nicks advice and put in more articulation and other markings and submit 2 solo/ensemble and no1 is gonna stop me!

thak u so much 4 ur comment siwi, but i wuz looking at an a-capella choir piece of music so i wuz basing instruments with the same voice parts so my horns r using the alto parts while the trumpets have soprano/alto parts, the tombones r my tenors and bass trombone and tuba r my basses and in the music they split a lot, so thts y the basses r playing almost the same thing and the horns r in such a high range wuz because it didnt sound rite 2 me or the music so thts y i did it. but i do appreciate the comments from every1 and i hope 2 present this as a lil bit of a better piece 2 solo/ensemble ^_^

thak u so much 4 ur comment siwi, but i wuz looking at an a-capella choir piece of music so i wuz basing instruments with the same voice parts so my horns r using the alto parts while the trumpets have soprano/alto parts, the tombones r my tenors and bass trombone and tuba r my basses and in the music they split a lot, so thts y the basses r playing almost the same thing and the horns r in such a high range wuz because it didnt sound rite 2 me or the music so thts y i did it. but i do appreciate the comments from every1 and i hope 2 present this as a lil bit of a better piece 2 solo/ensemble ^_^

I understand what you're trying to do here but if you want to achieve the same effect as a human choir it's not quite as simple as copying and pasting the vocal parts into brass staves. With a choir all the voices are essentially the same instrument, with the only difference being the range of notes they can sing; whereas brass instruments are all unique voices with different abilities besides range. If you want to make a literal transcription you would be better off transcribing this for strings, as the string quartet or orchestra can achieve the balance and blending of a human choir much more easily than other combinations of instruments (although I appreciate that a brass group may be the only ensemble you have access to). If you're interested in a more detailed discussion and advice on how to use a brass ensemble effectively, I would recommend the relevant chapters in any up-to-date orchestration book.

ok all i wanna say is tht i just did it 4 fun and i kinda figured tht it wudnt get in2 solo/ensemble. but it wuz just a lot of fun just tryin 2 compose sumthin thts so beautiful and not everything is perfect i already no this. Im still new here and this is only my 2nd piece tht ive finished so dont take things so hard ok? im sick and tired of ppl just tearin me down when i practically just started. im not sayin tht i cant take constructive criticism cuz i can but like i said i just started and ur completely ripping apart my piece bit by bit. it brings my esteem down a LOT. So plz just dont be so harsh k? thts all i ask 4.

ok all i wanna say is tht i just did it 4 fun and i kinda figured tht it wudnt get in2 solo/ensemble. but it wuz just a lot of fun just tryin 2 compose sumthin thts so beautiful and not everything is perfect i already no this. Im still new here and this is only my 2nd piece tht ive finished so dont take things so hard ok? im sick and tired of ppl just tearin me down when i practically just started. im not sayin tht i cant take constructive criticism cuz i can but like i said i just started and ur completely ripping apart my piece bit by bit. it brings my esteem down a LOT. So plz just dont be so harsh k? thts all i ask 4.

Hey Jessia,

First off, I really liked what you did with this piece. I have fond memories of singing this, and you really did a beautiful job with this arrangement. I can't really say much else, because it looks like all my comments about articulation and such have already been said. Perhaps use some sort of expressive marking as well?

Here are my suggestions to take this piece even further than you already have. Now that you have a basic concept of how you want your piece to be, why not step away from this piece for about a week, then come back to revisit it with a new perspective. I do this quite frequently, and I'll find stuff that I'd like a bit differently and then I end up changing it for the better. An arrangment is meant to be a blend of old music with new- half of it comes from the original composition itself, and half of it comes from your own heart. Some ways to do this would be to add new countermelodies (which would take care of your doubling), different chords than the original composition used (example: change a major passage into a minor one, or use diminished/augmented chords), or even completely invert your melody (instead of an ascending line of music, use a descending line). Taking a piece and making it your own is very fulfilling, but can also be quite challenging (even moreso than coming up with an original composition, sometimes). I really do think this piece has potential--now just start thinking "out of the box".

I don't want you to think that the reviews on here are meant to be harsh by any means. The people on YC are only offering up their suggestions- nothing more. I don't believe that I read anywhere that they thought your music was poorly written. It was hard at first for me to get criticism (and still is!!), but you have to remember not to take their comments personally and just know that the critiques are meant to help you, not make you feel bad about yourself.

I'd be willing to look at your pieces for you anytime you want (just send me a PM)- but know that what I say is meant to help you, and not attack you.

Again, nice job Jessia! I look forward to hearing more of your music!!

Elizabeth

jeneca, i know it's hard hearing that something you've worked really hard on being critiqued and analyzed, broken down and picked apart. but the harsh reality is that you NEED that critique or else you will never further yourself as a composer. i perfectly understand that being new means that you're not the most experienced in composing, but the critique that others have given you is just the same as any critique given to the most experienced composer on YC. Elizabeth is right, there is no personal attack on you that comes with this critique. what i do, is i look at all of the positive feedback the piece was given, to remind myself that there were things that i did right, and then i look at the negatives, and i take the sum of them and use it to what works for me. so keep composing, and you will improve and then maybe oneday you will have a piece with little or no critique, but that can only happen if you push on when your pieces come under scrutiny. happy composing! Nick