Symphony in E-flat

This is my second attempt at the Symphonic medium and has been a blast from beginning to end. Unlike the last symphony, I think this one was much more fun to write as the music flowed more naturally from my mind. I hope you all enjoy listening to it as much as I enjoyed writing it.

The orchestra is a standard sized one with tripled winds and a bit of extra percussion, with harp and celesta. This is the first orchestra piece that I've really used Celesta, a very cool color to work with. I also used a few percussion instruments that I haven't really taken advantage of before like finger cymbals, vibraphone, and crotales.

The Symphony is divided into three movements (unlike the usual four). Their forms are as follows:

Mov 1: Intro - Fast - Slow - Fast - Coda - 16 min.

Essentailly a large ABCBA form. There are three principle themes: A "waltz" theme, a "tone-row esque" theme, and a "romatic" theme. The first two dominate the B sections; the third domininates the A's and C's. There is no true Sonata form in here though the principles of exposition, development, and recapitulation have been used, just not in the traditional mode.

Mov 2: Slow - 8 min.

This is a slow movement that takes the theme of the horn quartet and expands on it. Actually, the theme isn't heard in its true form until the large tutti statement at the end. Elsewhere in the movement, the theme is treated to many shifting colors and settings. This was the first movement to be completed and, as such, is probably the most "conservative" of them all. But I find that works as a good foil to the first movement's sometimes raucus nature.

Mov 3: Scherzo - Finale - 7 min.

The final two movements in the traditioanl mold are smashed together into one movement here, the shortest of them all. The main scherzo themes, a minor and a major one, work agaist the original romantic theme of the 1st movement. The movement outlines a sort of conflict between the musics of the two with neither really able to get to full fruition until the end. The romantic theme takes over and becomes the grand triumphant finale. A coda acting as a homage to the original coda of the first movement concludes the symphony in an almost serene setting. That wasn't my original plan, but it worked out so well that I decided to keep it. Initially, this coda materal was slated to end the first movement, but I removed it in favor of a more ambiguous ending that sits there now.

On the whole the symphony is 32 minutes, just over half of my previous symphony, which, ironically, I consider a major triumph. A major problem with my last symphony was the utter lack of sucincness. I tried my best to keep excessive repetition to a minimum and have every note carry meaning. Also, the orchestration in this work is miles ahead of the last one and far more complex. As I've matured as a composer, I've been able to adjust my arsenal of techniques to things that work better for the orchestra; basically, this whole thing has been a big learning process.

It's been a long year of amazing writing, but this thing is done and I'm glad of it! Please let me know of your thoughts and critiques. Also, if you see any errors in the score, please point them out; I love proofreaders! Keep in mind this is only a first draft (the first complete one, that is), so everything is subject to change at this point, though I believe the piece is pretty much "set in hard clay", if you will.

Thanks for listening and enjoy!

Symphony in E-flat

Short impression of (especially) the 3rd movement.

As a movement it is nice. And the orchestration looks sound. At times the contrasts are a tad chiche or filmesque (as are the 'romantic' harmonies). This is a personal dislike from me; but I'll try to look beyond that. (Although it will be hard sometimes as there is a lot of the jelly substance called Mahler dripping of you score, no offence :D )

The 3rd movement starts so lightharted that at first I though it was a joke (in the positive, joyous way that Shosty's 9th is a joke). It is a scherzo after all :)

I really liked how the tonerow theme returns in the 3rd movement. I though that was rightly timed. Besides it made this movement nice serious again.

The epic recurrence of the other themes of the 1st movement sounded really like a coda to the 1st movement. So the whole symphony gets a nice arch structure.

The second scherzo theme reminded me somewhat of Tchaikofsky 6th sym, 3rd mvt.

The 9/8 measure RH[11], page 75, is not so working for me. It hinders the flow and does not seem functional. Although I like time-sig changes in general, here it isn't working. But the scherzo theme can really use it to get offbeat, to mislead the hearers.

I really am glad you tried to keep it short(ish). Otherwise you'dd sound rather full of yourself. Not you're just telling what you have to tell. Doing all important would have been really tiresome for me (as your audience). So I'm glad you tried to constrain yourself.

(An)other review(s) will follow, (time permitting)

Keep up!

Man please name your movements, "Mov 1, 2, 3" doesn't look good on the 2nd page.

I think you should fix some names there...

(forgive me to be so meticulous finding things to edit, but ey!, that's how you are :laugh: )

"Crash Cymbal" is a suspended cymbal, (Crash, Splash, Ride, Chinese), "Clash Cymbal" is used for the ones you want or I prefer "Pair Cymbals".

"Finger Cymbals" is not clear enough, you mean those little unpitched pair cymbals ? or the pitched ones "Crotales" aka "Cimbali antichi" ? I see the Crotales too, so you may add "unpitched Finger cymbals",

"Chimes" is also misused for Glockenspiel, "Tubular Bells" is clear enough.

The beginning is very good, I would have loved to see it to continue in minor, but don't listen to that, is just my personal taste. Once the major started was less interesting to me, until page 15, then it was very good again, just you have a motif there sounding like Prometheus that ... I don't know...

The Major segment at mark 19 was much better, at mark25 sounds to me that the military aspect on that part has nothing to do with what I've heard so far, sounds like taken from another work.

at mark26 sounds in your recording like you're using ondes martenot :P, I think your playback is doing linear gliss...

.... now a waltz, :hmmm: man, I don't reach to successfully connect into your mental network ....

a waltz that doesn't last for long, then it returns to the main ambient, your all dialogs and use of instruments are good, just the military & Waltzy segments I would take out of your symphony.

I may change my mind when I listen the other movements and see you overall structure, right now I have time to listen only 1 mov.

The vast majority of my dot points will be musical points as I didn't notice any errors in the score or orchestration.

First Movement

• I really like the atmosphere of the opening.
  
• I think you abandon the minor treatment of theme A too soon and move into 3. For me, it makes 4 and the luscious theme that follows less than it could be. Perhaps, even remove this until after the 'Marching band!' section, where it appears anyway or introduce this theme a little more subtly.
  
• The break into development at 6 seems too early as it really breaks momentum, perhaps this is related to the above point.
  
• 7 is excellent, I love it.
  
• I really enjoyed the 'marching band!' section and the build up to it from 11.
  
• I enjoy the various solos and how the all build right up to 19 and then 21. I especially enjoyed the horn writing here.
  
• 256-260 doesn't seem to work going back to the EbM.
  
• I like the chimes playing the theme - almost taunting the composer back to the dark area he was in at the start. The chaos that seems to follow is just brilliant, with the two thoughts fighting against each other.
  
• I like how the clarinets poke fun at the situation at 28.
  
• 31, returning the tone row like theme. It seems to rushed just playing off of the two notes to get there.
  
• The coda works much better than the first sketch of this movement you uploaded but I would have left it in the minor to then finish with the semi-quavers. This movement finished with a real sense of completion and leaving it in the minor would most likely leave us guessing what happened/happens and leads very well into the next mvt.
  

Second Movement

• This is lovely however, with the first movement finishing in the minor, this would have much more contrast and a sense of moving the story along to the last movement.
  
• I like what you did with the little figure we first really see at 24 in the violas. Very much reminds me of Mahler 9, mvt 4 and his 4 note motif.
  
• The ornaments in the oboe and violin at 33 and then again at 36 don't work for me.
  
• The large cadence was gorgeous even if it was slightly predictable.
  
• The anti-climax is nice (again, mahler 9 mvt 4?) although I would have added more high reaching (if that makes sense) in bar 90.
  

Third Movement

• The first 9/8 bar really urks me.. it seems to kill the momentum. It does work when the theme comes in later though.
  
• I like the two themes you use in the A section.
  
• 48-49 doesn't work for me. The transition to the minor theme.
  
• 6 is brilliant.
  
• 7 is o so very cheeky.
  
• Love the return of the first movement themes - done perfectly imo.
  
• 20. Brilliant!
  
• 23 is so much the composer over coming something on pure spirit which is why I really think leaving the first movement in a minor place will work - pushing all the way to 27 where the theme just soars!
  

So, overall, my main issue is how the movements work together - I like how the first movements coda appears as the final coda - I would definitely consider removing the climax from the 2nd movement.

All that said, it's still a brilliant piece in my eyes. Bravo!

Wonderful orchestration in this, Justin. I don't really care much for the overall musical language - but we already discussed that in the shout box. I'd like to see something more 'modern' from you. Perhaps write your next symphony completely dodecaphonic? Use an octatonic scale? Harmony based on fourths? Thanks for sharing this though. I look forward to your next work.

Justin,

Love the start – it has a nice anticipatory feeling required of a work of this duration. You have a good sense of pacing too – intro sounds like a good length and yields new material when needed in a gradually unfolding way.

From a melodic inventiveness, I felt section 10 meandered a bit with material that wasn’t particularly interesting. There are many, many nice moments, but the melodies don’t linger in one’s mind as much as they could. Just my opinion. The climax at 21 is really well written. The fugue at 31 was well executed and nicely interwoven into the piece.

At section 18, I would suggest not dividing violin 1 but rather put them all on the upper note to help reinforce with what will probably have a thin strained sound and dividing violin 2 instead.

The voicing’s are clean and effective and your control of structure is skillful. I particularly like the more prokofievian moments such as section 11 and 12. I thought the A material (I guess the more Prokofiev moments) were overall stronger than the melodic richness of the B material. It was well executed, just not memorable enough. For example, I hope this doesn’t come off the wrong way, but think of the late Romantic Russian composers like Glazunov, Arensky, Kalinnikov. In my opinion, these guys were technically very strong, but lacked the melodic flair of Tchaikovsky, Borodin, Rimsky-Korsakov, etc. In short, they were overshadowed and I think ultimately was just their ideas weren’t as strong for a variety of reasons. My orchestra recently played Kalinnikov and it sounded very Russian, very Tchaikovsky, but always somehow lacking in terms of the focused strength of the ideas – not the execution of those ideas (well, maybe a little bit of that too but that wasn’t the most noticeable problem). Mussorgsky was a great example of someone with the opposite problem, wonderful ideas but lacking somewhat in the technique of knowing how to fully exploit those ideas. In short, I think your melodic ideas could be more memorable. Please don’t take this as an insult because it isn’t meant to be, but rather as a challenge to take your melodic ideas up a notch. I know some very gifted composers who say they struggle very hard on melodies and would give anything to have that one melody that lingers in everyone’s minds so given the vocabulary of your music, I believe this is something you too strive for - that memorable idea that can't be shaken from one's mind.

For the slow movement, I like the choral intro and the Mahlerian adagio feel. That oboe solo on page 52 has a wonderful alpine quality that is found all over Mahler. I do feel there is something missing from the slow movement and that is how it fits in to the overall structure of the symphony. This is picky, but to me, you can’t replace the slow movement of Mahler Symphony No. 1, 2, 3, etc., with each other. Same for Beethoven, Brahms, etc. Those movements perfectly fit into the whole of those works. They are part of a bigger picture within that symphony and I think this is a very common characteristic of great music. It is sort of how with a great meal, it would be more than just a lot of good individual items that taste great on their own, but at its best, they would somehow balance and contribute to each other in a unique way.

Overall, I liked it and this would sound great on a real orchestra. This is an impressive piece and you should be proud to add this to your growing body of work!

The first moviment it's very Lovely I remember me the Brukner's stile and also part the John Williams's stile...

I like the your choice of using a non-sonata form, becaues I think than then the choice of using a non-sonata

the length of the movement is very long, the sonata form can be risky to use

i really enjoyed this, what sound samples did u use?

Sounds like a Disney movie. And in some places it feels like I was going back and forth between a frustrated Mahler, a romantic Tchaikovsky, and a 70's/early 80's John Williams. Not to be too harsh, but it didn't strike me as being too original. Not that it's not unique to that genre of music; but that something more clever or weird could have been done with it.

I've only listened to m. 1 but so for I am enjoying it.

more to come...

please stand by...

...end on line.

SS