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The People out "there"


giselle
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So there's a nice little loving community here.

Obviously there are lots of lovely little composers out there who have NOT found their way to this board. How do you feel about this?

Sometimes I like to pretend that this is the only place to be. :) I of course know this is not true. How do you think we represent the young composing community, in general (I know the age range here is vast)?

You can answer in any way you want, and interpret the question in any way you want (regarding attitudes, talent, general feelings about composition and opinions, etc)

I know that some of us don't know any other composers personally outside this board, and some others go to school and meet them all the time. I welcome any point of view on the matter.

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So there's a nice little loving community here.[/b]

Ah.

Community?- like many internet fora it's a bit xenophobic unless you have time to become part of the clique. Loving? Well....I read a very unhelpful, rather scathing review of a newcomer's work last night given by someone who is moderately talented as a budding musician but FAR less so a reviewer: tactless and narrow-minded musically. Said reveiwer used unnecessarily dilatory terms in an unnecessarily offhand way. I'm not sure we'll see that newcomer much more. So it isn't too embracing of new members.

Obviously there are lots of lovely little composers out there who have NOT found their way to this board. How do you feel about this?

It needs time. Conversations on the web are abysmally slow (like, I mean you can take two minutes to many days to exchange words that would take ten seconds face-to-face). So those who have jobs, practice one or two instruments, do their bit in the home, compose, gig here and there, are usually pushed for time so internet fora are a luxury. Probably different for students.

Sometimes I like to pretend that this is the only place to be. :) I of course know this is not true. How do you think we represent the young composing community, in general (I know the age range here is vast)?

If you like the place for chat that's nice - common interest, music.

But for composing, I've been dispirited/saddened by the bickering, politics, flippant reviews and vitriol that younger "young composers" engage in.

I don't know about the US but in the UK, "classical music" isn't "cool", so students outside the academies/universities usually lead a lonely life. In real life there's camaraderie among those who do discover their common interest; but I suppose the internet allows people to vent their feelings (it might be the only place for some to vent their anger, bullied and ostracised as they sometimes are for their music).

I've already noticed a couple of professional composers/seasoned musicians who arrived around when I did but who post increasingly less. Shame because they were ready to offer professional advice gratis. If their efforts were acknowledged at all they often met with hostility. You can't blame them therefore - I mean, given the choice of spending time tendering advice for which you'd charge students only to be ignored or met with abrasion - or doing something pleasurable elsewhere, what would you choose?!?

However, this site is no different from others in this respect, just that I was surprised at the off-topic behaviour here. It isn't like that in real-life composition fora (that I've got involved in).

I know that some of us don't know any other composers personally outside this board, and some others go to school and meet them all the time. I welcome any point of view on the matter.

[/b]

Yes, I've lost many contacts since student days but I opted for a business career. So most of what's left is provincial. I like it that way, though. I get the occasional small commission. I keep up with a few of my local students and we perform (gig?) when we get the chance....there have been interesting times and we do manage to get a couple of our own pieces in....!

:)

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okay, quote meltdown imminent. Just because I'm feeling conversational-ly

Ah.

Community?- like many internet fora it's a bit xenophobic unless you have time to become part of the clique.

That's always true - I guess the "loving" was sort of tongue-in-cheek, although it is rather fun and friendly after you get comfy and settle in.

I guess I've gotten used to the noob-cold-shoulder, but that will happen in every board on the internet, so I guess it's just something that comes with experience. I'm usually ignored at any board I post at for a few months, but once I stick my nose into everyone's business (jk) long enough, they get used to my presence and weirdness and everything just sorta falls into place. It's probably true of most peeps!

Conversations on the web are abysmally slow (like, I mean you can take two minutes to many days to exchange words that would take ten seconds face-to-face). [/b]

lol, yeah...Actually I hate real time, so it's perfect in my case. I sometimes am talking to people on the phone, set it down, and forget we're talking. Then later they're like..."why did you hang up? You're phone's been off the hook all day..."

I live in my own demented world! :D

Probably different for students.

....yeah. :D

But for composing, I've been dispirited/saddened by the bickering, politics, flippant reviews and vitriol that younger "young composers" engage in. [/b]

Me too, but I guess all we need to do is read that "budding composer" topic to see where discussions go on THAT topic. :)

I don't know about the US but in the UK, "classical music" isn't "cool", so students outside the academies/universities usually lead a lonely life. [/b]

lmao, yeah, it's definitely not "cool" here either, unless you travel in the right circle. Luckily the peeps I've met in real life are like a lot of the older people here! Funny, talented, laid back, and appreciative of the arts...

However, this site is no different from others in this respect, just that I was surprised at the off-topic behaviour here. It isn't like that in real-life composition fora (that I've got involved in).[/b]

How so, may I ask? I just wanted to know what bizarre aspect of the off-topic is particularly surprising :)

I keep up with a few of my local students and we perform (gig?) when we get the chance....there have been interesting times and we do manage to get a couple of our own pieces in....!

Well that's pretty cool!

Thanks for replying. I was having some kind of anxiety attack last night and made like five free-thought topics. Then I got all riled up over my quartet, couldn't sleep in my bed, and then finally fell asleep on the floor, slept through my composition lesson, called my teacher, freaked out, and he told me I needed a vacation and to not worry about it, LOL. erg, music.

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lol.

Noob bashing is an art. It's like legal internet hazing.

Anyone who surpasses it is missing out. ;)

[edit: I just did a random google search for "noob bashing" and was amused at the results - there's an anti-n00b bashing patrol and an online petition to eliminate noob bashing?!]

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I just wanted to add something, since I am relativly new here, I thought I can share some of my observations about this forum and the community.

First of all this is totally different atmosphere and environment than the real world. There are number of reasons of that. First of all, when listening to someones piece, you cant really judge the work without knowing anything about the composer. Like, you dont know his age, how long he is being composing, is he composing seriously or just messing around. I mean, these things matter when you judge a composition. Lets say there is a very weak composition and this guy is a beginner, or he could be doing composition for years but he just doesnt have talent or whatever. Now this has a big effect on your review, if he is a beginner, I would tell him that its good but it needs this and that. But, if he is being doing such uninspired work for a long time, your comments will not be the same now does it ? This is just an example. The bottom line is that, such things happen and it only happens because this is a very different environment and these things must be expected and will allways be.

Now I think I am off topic! I just wanted to tell this and it happened to be here!!

On the other hand, I found this form to be really enjoyable and I have enjoyed myself since I found out about this. Yes, I did get bad comments about my pieces but thats the real life. Thats why we are here, to share ideas , know other composers, share our work and this site is very much providing this.

One other thing that I joined this site is that I thought maybe I can be of some use. I have noticed that there are many young composers around, and I thought I can of some use to share my knowledge and my oppinions about their pieces. Perhaps I have written a bit strongly in some of the pieces I have commented but I am still new and I do not know anybody here. I am just juding what I hear regardless of who, that ofcourse will change when I will get to learn some of the people here.

Well, despite my rather poor english, I have been trying to comminicate with as many people as possibile since I become a member.

Have a nice day

:shifty:

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I just wanted to add something, since I am relativly new here, I thought I can share some of my observations about this forum and the community.

First of all this is totally different atmosphere and environment than the real world. There are number of reasons of that. First of all, when listening to someones piece, you cant really judge the work without knowing anything about the composer. Like, you dont know his age, how long he is being composing, is he composing seriously or just messing around. I mean, these things matter when you judge a composition. Lets say there is a very weak composition and this guy is a beginner, or he could be doing composition for years but he just doesnt have talent or whatever. Now this has a big effect on your review, if he is a beginner, I would tell him that its good but it needs this and that. But, if he is being doing such uninspired work for a long time, your comments will not be the same now does it ? This is just an example. The bottom line is that, such things happen and it only happens because this is a very different environment and these things must be expected and will allways be.

Now I think I am off topic! I just wanted to tell this and it happened to be here!!

I'm glad you brought this up. I'm a relative newbie around here but I've put a fair amount of time into commenting on many works posted here. As one of the most "seasoned" musicians around here (I'm the old man on these boards - which doesn't necessarily say anything about my abilities), I often find myself in a position to offer more than just what I consider to be criticism. Certainly, there are many holes in my knowledge and abilities (which is part of the reason I hang out here), and I try to put some kind of disclaimer in the body of most every post I make, but I feel that I have quite a bit to offer.

We are all students of music - I don

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It seems to me sometimes like there are two YC communities: one with members that actually comment thoughtfully on people's works, and another with members who mostly delight in hurling gratuitous invective at one another. Sometimes it's hard to keep that invective from spilling over the edges of the FFA forum, especially with a number of individuals seeming to always test the limits of what's permitted. Certainly the relative anonymity of the Internet - even if we all know each others' full names, most of us aren't going to meet face-to-face - has a tendency to encourage people to act out...

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It seems to me sometimes like there are two YC communities: one with members that actually comment thoughtfully on people's works, and another with members who mostly delight in hurling gratuitous invective at one another. Sometimes it's hard to keep that invective from spilling over the edges of the FFA forum, especially with a number of individuals seeming to always test the limits of what's permitted. Certainly the relative anonymity of the Internet - even if we all know each others' full names, most of us aren't going to meet face-to-face - has a tendency to encourage people to act out...

Most definitely. After poking around YC I was still a bit hesitant about joining. I'm a young professional with a bit of experience and I joined YC for self exposure and to see what the younger crowd was doing and musically thinking these days and to chat it up a bit. Also, I thought I might give advice and help if ever needed. But some of the behavior on this forum really surprises me. And I think in part when you have a lot of young talented or think their talented musicians, you tend to have strong opinions based on book knowledge with very little or no real life experience.

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This reminds me strongly of the argument in this thread, pertaining to how people treat eachother on the internet.

The argument is that people shouldn't take things on the internet as seriously or as directly as in real life. I don't see why the internet should be any different than meeting in a room to discuss because true, we're most likely not going to meet face to face: does the fact that you'll never see the hurt expression on a person's face make it right?

Why do people think that just because they're in their own homes, hiding behind a monitor that they have the right to treat another person that way?

I know before I said that I liked people to be direct, honest and to the point (maybe not in those exact words, but the equivalent) and that that was the reason I like Shaver but theres a line between being direct, which is good and down right cruel.

There is a reason why I never post music here, I have the feeling I'd be flamed right off the board.

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Unofrunate - it's how the world is, worsening with overpopulation.

When you think, the human condition hasn't changed by so much as a jot in several millennia. Only the hi-tech of the toys have progressed, if that's what you call it. It seems to have brought greater discontent that content. People are just as ill as they ever were, they can't help fighting, killing....

Sadly, it's males. I'll bet you can't think of many females who have started wars. You don't find many females on this site starting flame wars...

M

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Guest JohnGalt

Unofrunate - it's how the world is, worsening with overpopulation.

When you think, the human condition hasn't changed by so much as a jot in several millennia. Only the hi-tech of the toys have progressed, if that's what you call it. It seems to have brought greater discontent that content. People are just as ill as they ever were, they can't help fighting, killing....

Sadly, it's males. I'll bet you can't think of many females who have started wars. You don't find many females on this site starting flame wars...

M

My my, your post is just FULL of generalizations!

To say the world is worsening with overpopulation implies that either the entire world is overpopulated, or the entire world suffers because some part is overpopulated. Truth is, not many countries are overpopulated, and places like here in America, and in China, there are VAST amounts of land open left to settle. We haven't even gotten close to using all the available land yet. I don't know about you, but I don't suffer much because of overpopulated third-world countries. I can't think of the last time I suffered because some country was overpopulated.

There is much evidence to suggest the human condition has changed greatly. I don't know about you, but I think extending life expectancy to 80+ years, having medicines available for nearly every ailment, having surgery and procedures to fix nearly everything that goes wrong, and having an ever increasing amount of knowledge about the way everything works is a mighty signifigant change to our condition. We are not merely top of the food chain now.

To say technology has brought greater discontent than content is a assumption. You're focusing on technology used for destruction, when you're forgetting everything its made possible (everything).

To say females aren't responsible for starting wars is also a generalization. You forget that wars are rarely the aftermath of a single person's decisions, even dictators. Women can be very powerful persuaders. I would wager to say nearly every war has had the input of a woman in some way.

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My my, your post is just FULL of generalizations!

So what? Did you want a dissertation? :w00t: :P I'm not sure the person I was replying to did (before you chose to assign yourself as the recipient). I was largely opining, hence use of the word "seem" but since you choose not to read what's there before going off at half-cock, that's up to you. Can I assume you know what I mean by 'largely' in this specific context?

My response would have been delivered in a PM but I'm not an obtrusive person, impolitely presuming upon a member who doesn't know me too well hence a piblic reply. Just as a generalisation.

:D

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Guest JohnGalt

So what? Did you want a dissertation? :D :D I'm not sure the person I was replying to did (before you chose to assign yourself as the recipient). [/b]

Public forum, public conversations. I can reply to anything I want.

I was largely opining, hence use of the word "seem" but since you choose not to read what's there before going off at half-cock, that's up to you.

It would be my guess that nearly 90% of the posts in YC are opinions, and, according to you, should not be taken seriously or debated because of such. Being opinion does not change a single thing.

Can I assume you know what I mean by 'largely' in this specific context?

Can I assume you know it doesn't matter?

My response would have been delivered in a PM but I'm not an obtrusive person, impolitely presuming upon a member who doesn't know me too well hence a piblic reply. Just as a generalisation.

:D

Why send a PM? Seems rather pointless to me. Defend what you post where everyone can see it, or stop trying.

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