Young Composers' Fugue Challenge

Just try one out... the only thing that's poisoning the air is other composers' negativity, as usual! =)

Would it be "poisoning the air with negativity" to guide a new piano student into learning Minuet in G by Bach as opposed to a difficult Hungarian Rhapsody by Franz Liszt?

Or would it simply be prudent?

Perhaps you've never had students leave music simply because they've been pushed to hard too fast. I'd reckon all but a few people on here can do this - but all could do it if they worked on simpler music first. Basic harmony, voice leading and 2 part writing.

Hahah holy crap, this is officially the hardest thing I've ever done composition wise, even with 5 years of music theory behind me. :P

I'm gonna keep trying though, it's so much fun ;)

Here's my exposition on the C minor one.

I'm really open to critics and I think there's enough stuff to criticize, lol!

Fugue_Cm.mid

Well I'm new to writing fugues myself, but maybe my comments can be helpful anyway...

First of all for terminology's sake I think you have more than an exposition there. An exposition basically ends when the last voice enters.

Your entrances seem to be coming in good pitch order (Tonic-dominant-Tonic-Dominant), so that's good.

From what I know of fugues though, I think they should come in with each entrance in in outer voice, so that the entrance is clear. Your order is alto-soprano-bass-tenor, but IMO the tenor voice gets a little lost. I would change it to alto-soprano-tenor bass.

As far as the harmony, I'm having a hard time figuring out what your progression is. The dificulty with counterpoint is to keep each voice melodically independent while bringing them together for a clear, functional harmony. Make sure that you have a clear harmonic progression planned out. My greatest successes so far have been when I let one voice develop itself melodically and use that voice to suggest the harmony.

My biggest struggle so far in my attempts has been to write a good, complimentary counter-subject. I think your might be improved on as well. Mainly because I don't think it presents a really clear harmony (see point above) and also because it seems to get a little lost and muddled. I think the counter-subject has to have a really high melodic content. As I said before I suck at that part, so take this comment as empathy, not arrogance. You may want to try to make it very motivically solid.

I think you have a good start. Keep working on it, with or without my suggestions. I'm sure you will do fine.

By the way, if you haven't read J. Lee Graham's crash course yet, you should. It's very useful. http://www.youngcomposers.com/forum/A-Cras...gues-t4302.html

Wether or not my attempts sound good, I had a great time trying this exercise, and am glad to see others trying it. Good luck!

Actually, the order of the voices really doesn't matter. I do make sure that the final entry, regardless of the number of voices, is always in the tonic key, but I think that's more a matter of my own preference.

Two very well-known examples start in the middle voices. The third movement of Bach's fourth Brandenburg is a fugue that starts in the tenor voice (viola) and the first movement of the double violin concerto (BWV 1043) starts in the alto (second violins).

I guess this may not really be a big deal, but I did read in a theoretical text somewhere that the entrances should be in the outer voices at the time. What I mean is that if the alto voice enters first, then the next should be tenor or soprano, or else if the bass comes in, then the tenor will be lost in its entrance. Another "bad" sequence would be B T S A. The Alto wouldn't be prevalent enough. I haven't checked out Bach's stuff to see if this is indeed the case, but I'm sure I did read it and it seems to make sense....

Hahahaha, okay, here is my hilarious first attempt at an exposition (although the ending of the exposition is obviously not finished)

http://www.freewebs.com/emmdoubleew/FugueThema6.mid

Suggestions and Criticisms before I continue?

For the record, I have never once commented negatively on anyone's specific pieces, and I am SURE if I did that my comments would not be appreciated as you expect your/his comments to be.

Actually, I can't really imagine improving without constructive criticism, so it's welcome here.

Also, I really enjoyed your fugue. Great work. I'd love it if you could find some aspects to improve in my fugue.

Hahahaha, okay, here is my hilarious first attempt at an exposition (although the ending of the exposition is obviously not finished)

http://www.freewebs.com/emmdoubleew/FugueThema6.mid

Suggestions and Criticisms before I continue?

OK, I've composed this over the last 2 days (1.5 hrs each) but I haven't been on the forum nor seen the crash course, so I'm going on what little of counterpoint I know already.

To be honest, after the exposition I tried to "explore tonal space" by just outlining the tonalities. So I haven't used much of the subject except to "comment" on the progression of the music.

YC_fug_1.mid

You know, you can also submit these wonderful fugues to kunstderfuge.com (a site dedicated to fugues). Check out the different fugues people have submitted from around the world: http://www.kunstderfuge.com/new/classical.htm . Just email your file to Alessandro Simonetto at me@onclassical.com and tell him you would like them to be showcased on the "new" fugues page. =)

Whats up everyone im new to the forum here

already ive heard some of the fugues posted on here and some are very impressive

ive recently started getting itno composition and have acquired a taste for fuge and of coruse Bach

Brandon Hamayouni and Baroque Enthusiast in particular seem to have the practice down very cleanly but some of the others in here show a nice instinct for it too

Personally when ive tried writing a fugue ive had a nice feel for the invention process for the exposition but really get into some trouble when it comes to developing the piece, and in fact for composition in general. When it comes to larger development of ideas i feel like i am walking in the dark or taking guesses. Of course you can let your isntinct guide you but its not so simple when you want to compose seriously.

I was wondering if there are any textbooks or learning materials you can guide me to wards for learning fuge as well as coutnerpoint in general... right now im getting into Walter Piston's Harmony book and i will be checking out Kent Kennan Counterpoint as well as Study Of Fugue from Alfred Mann... i was wondering also if tehre are any textbooks or treatises out there which discuss style and form of the baroque period, which deal with typical rhythms and motives or musical cliches of the era and such, since all i seem to be able to find is more technical or academic material.

btw keep up the good work, very impressive indeed, definitely shows me i gotta lot of learnign to do

If anyones interested in hearing, this is as far as i'll go with a fugue before it all becomes a game of guesswork (something i avoid)... a subject and coutnersubject...

http://www.filefactory.com/file/37a940/

scroll down a little and click where it says "Download for free with FileFactory Basic"

when downloaded add the extension "mp3" to the file

and lets keep this thread going, seems like the highest quality thread on this site at a glance

Welcome, PraeludiumUndFuge! Glad to see your interest in the thread!

A bit on your exposition: I like the subject very much; it reminds me of a trumpet call. Keep working through it though. Don't be afraid of guesswork; experiment! Past the exposition, the possibilities are numerous. Go ahead and give it a try!

Also, why not try one of Brandon's subjects on pg.1 of the thread? They are short, catchy, and very workable.

- BE

how do you guys do these?!

*feels depressed*

how do you guys do these?!

*feels depressed*

Don't feel depressed! Try one! I would also suggest checking out J. Lee Graham's excellent "Crash Course in Writing Fugues" (which can be found in this same Advice and Techniques Forum).

- BE

More please.

I've decided give this a pop, taking the one in C and working with a harpsichord. Will post upon completion

Here is the first 16 bars of my fugue, however, i'm unsure as to how to prolong it, any suggestions?

PS, won't let me upload the MUS file, any idea why?

PS, won't let me upload the MUS file, any idea why?

Click the attachment bar, right next to the smily at the top of the post box

no joy with that either

Well, I have tried one for the A-minor theme.

I've kept it simple with only two voices ;)

this is so good!!!

i tried again but it didn't work so i put it on yousedit, heres the link:

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=check_download&ufid=C330BBF13EF7B9BE&key=257f4dc2808a856b4ebc1ce4be82592d7b35ad3f

since uploading i've decided to kill the tie in the right hand from measures 10-11.

Thanks, Mark

Did someone order a fuge? I've been unable to upload for a few days, so it's not quite hot off the griddle.

This fuge runs for nearly 3

I will attempt a fugue on your subject Paul, though there are a few things about it that need to be changed for me to want to work with it though, though they are very minor. I'll post it when I am finished.