Obscene Obsession for Full Symphonic Orchestra

Well...

I think that this is the largest piece I've written in terms of length, but also in time it took to work it out! It's just enormous for my state of mind back then. Written in 2004!

www.nikolas-sideris.com/stuff/oo.mp3

www.nikolas-sideris.com/stuff/oo.pdf

A very short analysis of the work...

The work is seperated in 7 chapters, starting from Brith and reaching Death. I won't answer any questions on that! :P

Other than that underneath the music, there is an everlasting fractal which grows in speed and pitches.

I find that this is the most impotant piece in my career up to then, and in my advancment as a composer. This is the piece that made me realise that I can wrtie "good" music!

I'm looking forward to your reviews. Just note that this is a finished piece and thus I won't be chaning anything really, unless it is a tpyo, or some other bizzare error... I'm not looking for the type of feedback "did I do the right thin at bar 240?", but more the type of feedback "did you enjoy it? Yes or No? Why?" and so on so fourth.

Sure enough I don't have the power to dictate to you what to post, so really post anything you want really... :(

musically, interesting.

notationally, a disaster.

I'm gonna be a total scallop here, but you know already how much I admire your musical abilities, so I'll just nit-pick at your notational abilities instead :)

you over-use double dotted values. they bring nothing but confusion. replace them in the score with normal non-dotted and tied or single dotted and tied values where applicable.

when a score is in C, always add an indication on the first page (Gardner Read).

first page of a score SHOULD contain one line of every instrument playing in the piece. ie: if you have full woodwinds, brass and strings, the first system should include staves for all of those, even if they are empty.

personally, I don't find that beaming across barlines brings anything to the notational clarity, but I guess that's a personal choice. I find it more unattractive than anything else.

there are some collisions between indications and notational elements (like the "

Hey QC!

Just saw your review! Thanks for that!

Keep in mind that this was done back in 2004 (rather it was 2003, the recording was early 2004 actually)!

Other than that the 1 bar rest is there to let everything go quiet. After a ffff it needs quite some time to calm down... same with the performers... :P

I

I will agree on all the points you make actually, and say that all these points no longer apply in any of my latest works!

The main problem I had with this, is that it was really huge! I mean enormous! 57 pages, and yet condensed score! With x4 woods etc... A nightmare to put to Finale!

The only thing I'll say is that with the size I had huge problems with that! The minute I went from 60% to 57% I would fit an extra bar in the system which would destroy the whole thing yet again!

Other than that this idea and the piece was in my mind for plenty time (something like more than a year), and only then I had decided enough to start wrtiting it (middle 2003). It was a true obsession, I'll tell you that!

Thank you for your kind words, QC! (Btw, it has a very strong root on A and F, so you should feel somewhat at home, no? :D)

I love this piece man, well done! It has an incredible energy, really palpable. It is also incredibly jazzy, which I really like, all those major minor clashes and the opening is so mellow that I feel as if I should be in the corner of some jazz cafe smoking weed! It just washes over you in an incredibly slinky way. My favorite part being the fantastic climax that you build up into the second section. You really build up that opening so well and then when you feel this sudden surge forward into the big tutti, its great!

I liked the second section, the little repeated cells seems to owe a little to minimalism, and it works really well, with little motifs sticking in your head. If I were to criticize then I would have liked for you to have changed time sigs ever now and again to wrong foot the listener as it didn't take me long to feel the pattern and I was dying for you to lop a quaver off the bar, or to add an extra beat so the patterns shifted slightly.

I felt that about 2 thirds of the way in, it felt like it lost its way a little, as if it were running out of steam because I had felt that everything up until that point had been well paced and then it lost my attention a little bit.

I loved the ravelesque harp glissandi, very colouristic use of the orchestra, perhaps a little heavy in places but non the less very effective.

As has been said already, the score is very hard to read, it is too closely packed in, and I found it hard to keep my place whilst listening to the piece. I think it is a piece that you should definitely try and get performed, it would sound amazing played by a live orchestra! However, I would suggest tidying the score up quite a bit (I am such a neat freak when it comes to scores :rolleyes:)

All in all, superb work that I genuinely enjoyed, and as said before, I really loved the way you used quite a jazzy harmonic and rhythmic language!

Thanks Ryan :D

About the score. I know :rolleyes: I am getting more and more sad to this. My only defense, is that the score was printed in A3 size paper, so I didn't mind having it packed and all that. But still for such a huge work, and my first attempt at such size, it definately needs major corrections...

I'd love to get it performed, but somehow, the size of the orchestra would be intimidating to all but the most well known orchestras, so there are slimm chanced to that. :P

Jazzy: (Robin get a listen to this please). I had no intention whatsoever to get jazzy results, but they just happened. There goes the myth that the composer controls everything: It's all bullshit! :D Yes, I know what you mean about jazzy...

About the patterns, you're dead right again: If I was writting it here , I would throw it off once or twice, nbut mainly would change pitches towards the end, before the climax. Major shift!

In all, as I imagine happens to all, when I look at this work all I see are things that I would like to change! Maybe, if I am allowed I might change the whole thing drastically and put it in my phd portfolio... Hmmm... That's a hghly decent idea, indeed!

Well, like I have a right to say anything after just posting my first ever posted piece here!

But - and this is a gripe I have with modern classical music as a whole, not with yours in particular - why no tune? Everything nowadays seems to have shades of Harrison Birtwhistle and Bartok going through it. Very clever, very dramatic. Makes me think of old black-and-white detective movies when there's a rooftop night chase going on.

But it wouldn't know a melody if it had one given to it giftwrapped. All film-noir drama, no tune!

You CAN blend the two, you know - listen to Michael Nyman. He's a bit of a one-trick pony, I know that, but then so are many composers (including Bach just to be scandalous - and I can prove that if asked!) But his tight-tune loops build up atmosphere rather well. And can easily be reproduced via Fruity Loops!

So overall, do I like it? I would do in a movie, it would fit the action excellently. As a standalone piece - no - I'm a New Age Melody lover.

Sorry.

Now feel free to have a go at mine!!!

Yours with respect

Chris (ulrichburke on site).

I disagree about no melody....its completely subjective and depends on what you class as a melody.

Let's nip this in the bud: this isn't the thread to be discussing this topic.

Argue all you want in the appropriate forum.

Here, you may comment on the work being presented, in this specific case, Nikolas' piece for large orchestra.

Cheers Ryan :D

Chris, everyone to their taste by all means. I mean you didn't like it, that's fine by all means. And thanks for letting me know.

I won't start lecturing or whatever really... not the right place

I'll go check your piece when it's on :)

This is the first time I've posted in a long time, but I'm listening to this right now and I think it is badass. Who cares about melody when the textures are so cool? I'm not a huge fan of classical music (especially when it's really dull like that one guy who "corrected" a piece I wrote because God hates parallel fifths but that is neither here nor there.) This piece is awesome. Love the builds.

What can I say? I expected nothing less from Nikolas! Yet, somehow, this lacked the sophisticated beauty of works like "continuity" and "exeliksis" as well as the soundtrack-ish beauty of your video game music. Herein can surely be found a lot of the seeds from which blossomed into your later work...

This is the first time I've posted in a long time, but I'm listening to this right now and I think it is badass. Who cares about melody when the textures are so cool? I'm not a huge fan of classical music (especially when it's really dull like that one guy who "corrected" a piece I wrote because God hates parallel fifths but that is neither here nor there.) This piece is awesome. Love the builds.

Thanks. :cool: I'm glad you enjoyed my music! (Who on earth told you that God hates parallel fifths? brrrrrrrrrrrrr)

What can I say? I expected nothing less from Nikolas! Yet, somehow, this lacked the sophisticated beauty of works like "continuity" and "exeliksis" as well as the soundtrack-ish beauty of your video game music. Herein can surely be found a lot of the seeds from which blossomed into your later work...

cheers Mano,

Just note that Continuity was written a couple of years before OO. Also keep in mind that this one is very hard/raugh/edgy in all senses... I will share some things with you later on :D

Warning: Do not listen to this while under the influence of marijuana.

The first 2 minutes it got my attention, and it was interesting for me, but as time went on I was expecting something to happen, something that will free my ears from the constant pressure of the same sustained sounds. It came to a point of actual irritation and I had to stop listening to it.

Is it an interesting piece?

Yes

Is it enjoyable?

Not for me.

Is it annoying?

For me? You bet.

Sorry for been so blunt, but this is how I felt about the piece.

I would suggest you should get rid of the complexities in the score, it creates un necessary stress and confusion. Say what you want with your music directly without going into complexities. Where was the musical line , the theme? I didn’t find any.

Warning: Do not listen to this while under the influence of marijuana.

This is an... interesting comment. Probably glad that my music works hand in hand with marijuana I guess...:)

Saul, thanks for posting first of all.

The first 2 minutes it got my attention, and it was interesting for me, but as time went on I was expecting something to happen, something that will free my ears from the constant pressure of the same sustained sounds. It came to a point of actual irritation and I had to stop listening to it.

Did you actually listen to the whole track or not? Maybe listening to the whole track could resolve the tention?

Is it an interesting piece?

Yes

Thanks

Is it enjoyable?

Not for me.

Is it annoying?

For me? You bet.

I'm not exactly surpirsed at that, but it's your POV so it's perfectl acceptable here. :) If you could define a bit better what annoyed you (after you listened to the whole track, unless you have and I misunderstood the first part of your post somehow)

Sorry for been so blunt, but this is how I felt about the piece.

I would suggest you should get rid of the complexities in the score, it creates un necessary stress and confusion. Say what you want with your music directly without going into complexities. Where was the musical line , the theme? I didn

Well Nick,

I was referring to the complexities in the sound, and they are connected to the score, for how a complex sound can be created without a complex score?

I know that music is not always happy nice and enjoyable...or beautiful...

But that is what I

What is it then meant to be ? Irritation? Discomfort ? Annoyance and stress?

It can be these things, but as Nikola said, it should have a nice resolution. From what I have heard of your music Saul, is that yes, you may have some nice melodies but there is not much tension and resolution which can make it quite monotonous.

Anyway, I loved this piece, Nikola.:) Not much that I can criticise...

Cheers for coming back. do check the other thread I pointed out, you might be pleasently surpirsed :) (especially with Thale Cres actually).

I don't mind at all that you didn't like the music (my music), and my post wasn't about that. I'm not here to force anyone into liking my music at all. If you are looking for the qualities you mention, you won't find them in this track, that's for sure. The complexities of the sound (and thus to the score, but I'm not talking about the difficulty of reading the score), are a part of the music in this case, as the orchestration plays a vital role in this track.

I wasn't looking to cause irritation, or discomfort, or annoyance. Maybe stress but look at the tittle again and take a guess: "Obscene Obsession". I sure hope that you were not hoping for a nice melody from music named "Obscene Obsession".

By all means, I don't mind that you didn't like it. Just note that the negative qualities, as you mention are not coming from the music, alone, but in connection to the listener. Other people don't find these qualities you mention at all. :)

PS. Still don't know if you actually heard the whole piece or not. If not, I would suggest listening to the whole thing, as it does change over time, and it could be worht the ten minutes. But by all means, make up your mind all the way. as I said, your POV, your ears, your style, not a problem with that at all

Anyway, I loved this piece, Nikola.:) Not much that I can criticise...

Hey! Thanks!

(no need for any comparison here, or critic of anyones music, right? :))

Cheers for coming back. do check the other thread I pointed out, you might be pleasently surpirsed :) (especially with Thale Cres actually).

I don't mind at all that you didn't like the music (my music), and my post wasn't about that. I'm not here to force anyone into liking my music at all. If you are looking for the qualities you mention, you won't find them in this track, that's for sure. The complexities of the sound (and thus to the score, but I'm not talking about the difficulty of reading the score), are a part of the music in this case, as the orchestration plays a vital role in this track.

I wasn't looking to cause irritation, or discomfort, or annoyance. Maybe stress but look at the tittle again and take a guess: "Obscene Obsession". I sure hope that you were not hoping for a nice melody from music named "Obscene Obsession".

By all means, I don't mind that you didn't like it. Just note that the negative qualities, as you mention are not coming from the music, alone, but in connection to the listener. Other people don't find these qualities you mention at all. :)

PS. Still don't know if you actually heard the whole piece or not. If not, I would suggest listening to the whole thing, as it does change over time, and it could be worht the ten minutes. But by all means, make up your mind all the way. as I said, your POV, your ears, your style, not a problem with that at all

Why did you choose this title for the work?

Perhaps you wrote the music and knew how it sounds and decided to give it a name that sort of fits the style of the music.. I dont know.. maybe you came up with the name and then wrote the music....which was it?

I knew what I was writting, so I did know what I wanted to express. The name came at more or less 1/4th of the way of writting... Hadn't heard a bit yet.

Yet another time: Did you listen to the whole track, or just the first 2-3 minutes, please?

I knew what I was writting, so I did know what I wanted to express. The name came at more or less 1/4th of the way of writting... Hadn't heard a bit yet.

Yet another time: Did you listen to the whole track, or just the first 2-3 minutes, please?

I'll make the effort to listen to the whole thing later on.. not now though.

Saulsmusic, I hadn't heard that piece, but I must say, Nikolas' was far more exciting and interesting... Anyway, this thread is not a discussion of your music.

I'll make the effort to listen to the whole thing later on.. not now though.

Not a great idea to comment on someones work, without listening to the whole of it....

(no need for any comparison here, or critic of anyones music, right? :))

:)

Actually, I just listened again, and I found a figure that I thought didn't fit very well. Now I can't for the life of me find it again!:) If I do, I'll let you know.:) This is going on my ipod for sure...

My favorite part of this is the beginning where that initial sonority is expanded upon, ever growing in tension and density of texture. The flurry of instruments that contributed to the sound presented a very clear and intriguing aural image.

I was also quite impressed with the synthesis, it was well done.

Overall, this piece evoked some very intense feelings in me. I got a strong sense of claustrophobia - this could be due to the sonorities present in the piece. Needless to say, if that is the effect you intended it worked well on me. You say it is a piece about life up through death. It sounds like it must be a life filled with tension and misgivings. However, there are serene moments from time to time.