I used to visit this site under a different name but left about 4 years ago. It re-entered my thoughts a few days ago and so I returned. Then I had a idea.

I decided to create a dedicated Young Composers' Message board site, using professional grade forum software (Invision Power Board). With this you can attach MIDI files to your posts, for example, among many other useful features. It brings together the advantages of this forum and the advantages of the Young Composers' extension over at Yahoo, providing the functionality of each.

The address of the board is currently http://www.freepgs.com/ycmb. If enough people register then I'll put the board on the domain www.ycmb.com, and add it to Google to attract more members. I may also upgrade the storage capacity of the server, so larger files such as MP3s can be attached to posts.

All in all this is an 'ultimate solution' for a Young Composers' message board, I feel. So migrate over to http://www.freepgs.com/ycmb, and if people like it and keep using it then I'll take it further.

Thanks,

Michael

eh... i dunno

It's not the first time it's been attempted.

I think the main issue which needs to be addressed is archiving of media - as far as I can tell, Able Minds stopped accepting submissions in 2001, which led to the creation of the extension, but eventually people started leaving and very few new members replaced them (most prospective members probably assuming the whole site was dead).

How many people are here who joined since Able Minds dropped us? As far as I know, there's myself, Marisa, Chris, and Bex, I think in that order (I'm not sure).

Archiving of media is the main advantage. As it stands, members currently have access to 500k attachment storage, but only allowing MIDIs. If lots of people sign up then I'll pay for some extra storage (maybe boosting it to about 3mb per member or so) and MP3 file attachments will be allowed.

I implore everyone to sign up. You won't lose anything by doing so, in fact quite the opposite. If it doesn't work out then it doesn't work out.

There are no ongoing costs so it doesn't matter how many hits or members there are. But I certainly think it's a better solution than this board.

Well I've signed up. I doubt I'll be hanging around much though to be honest...

Thanks Stefan.

I'm doubting if enough people visit this site anymore for it to be possible to launch a new board. It's sad, because once this place dies completely there won't be anywhere on the internet whatsoever for young composers to discuss things and get feedback on their work. It's bad for composing as a whole, in my opinion.

Everyone here should register to indicate how many members there would be. To launch the board and have it indexed on search engines, there needs to be quite an active community of at least 20 members and a few posts per day - nobody signs up for dead boards.

I realise that a some here may be uneasy about signing up for a new board. But it's the only way to move things onwards and upwards. The lack of ability to attract new members means this board will be dead soon - a new board easily found via search engines is the only option.

I think the most useful thing would be to look elsewhere for the fresh blood. A lot of us grew up on this board and can hardly be called 'young' any more. You're right, this is a great place for people to learn, discuss and all that sort of stuff. I genuinely think I would be a different person if it weren't for this board. Actually, coming to think of it, I think I would have been a very different person. I was trying to think the other day where my point of enlightenment was. - The fact that I feel a very different person - a far more .... awake person - from when I was 20 years old for instance. I think the many long discussions we had here were very useful in building up my verbal and discussing skills. Wow. I really think this board has changed me. Life-changing. Literally perhaps. Thanks guys.

Anyway. What was I saying - yes. Fresh blood. There must be other places you can look for people. Schools. Other message boards. Adult music boards.

I don't think the idea of new forum software is too good an idea. The main reason: with certainty, at least two of the regular old members like the way this message board works and dislike, in some respects, the 'ezboard' style of board very much. This software works and works well enough for what we use it for. Why re-invent the wheel if it isn't broken?

Just my tuppence' worth.

Yeah I love this message board system!

YC won't be the same without it!

Yeah, I joined before they stopped updating (I think in 1997?) and one thing that attracted me was that there were so many people who had so many diverse oppinions on music. That really didn't stop until about a year or two ago. Now, there's probably a core of, what, 15 people left? hm...depressing that this could end. Because you're right, it's the ONLY place for "young" composers to go to for advice from peers.

And frankly, it really surprised me to hear that Mike was willing to hand over anything at all. I asked him last year if he would let me be the editor of the board and he refused saying that the site was going to be relaunched (or some bs like that). Obviously that never happened. It's a lose-money situation for them...why have the board and the servers and all the equipment for this site if no one is going to use it.

C'est la vis...

Wow, and I found and remembered the password to my own screenname...original it was.

Just a thought...

The whole idea of this being a board for "Young Composers" is going to keep a lot of people away who might actually be useful members of this kind of community. I'm by far the oldest person ever to have been a part of this, and despite encouragement, nowadays even I am feeling like I'm too old for this...that somehow I am out of place, or even that my presence and activity inhibits the natural order of things here, which is why I've been staying away. Let's face it: few of you would normally interact with people my age. I'm an exception among my age group in that I was interested in getting involved with this at all, given the narrow parameters within which it operates. But I happen to enjoy exchanging ideas with younger people - more or less as peers most of the time, and occasionally as a mentor when appropriate. I enjoy the fresh points of view, I learn a lot, and at times I've had the opportunity to impart some of what I've learnt in life without seeming too "parental." But most people my age don't get that at all.

Could it also be that there aren't very many young people going into composition anymore? I can scarcely believe it. But I found this board via a simple internet search years ago, and it can still be found that way now, so nothing has really changed. Why, then, is no one coming?

I finally remembered the password for this account. Long post coming up.

robBE: You offered your help to Mark and he refused? There are in fact potential reasons. Firstly, from being in correspondence with him, I have realised that YC is hardly his main priority. He actually owns the web hosting company that this site resides on, and is understandably more concerned with staying in the black and looking after his clients' websites/servers than revamping this one. Web hosting is a highly competitive industry, and because YC never really had the potential to make money, it's low down on his list. Possibly when you asked last year he had promised to himself to revive it, but either forgot or was inundated with more important things. This time around, we have come up with a strategy which could make some money.

Regarding this board...in the other thread David Hately referred to the "ezboard style". By this I'm assuming he means that everything is essentially in a table, with last poster, thread starter, etc., as opposed to this board's untabled approach, More information overall, I suppose.

I see where you guys are coming from on this, I also quite like this board; as he said, it's clean and functional. But there's a reason why nobody uses these types of boards anymore - they're simply less popular than the more up-to-date ones. Having been here for coming up to a decade for some of you, it's pretty much a no-brainer that you'll be attached to this board and moving onto something else will be a real pain. However, I'm sure that getting a more fully-featured board with the ability to attach MIDIs to posts among other things would attract more people (that, and getting submissions running again). Back in 1997 this board was revolutionary - nowadays, it's a relic.

J. Lee Graham: I think nobody new is coming because things quietened down around here. Before all this, it had become practically silent. Nobody will post on a dead board. I remember you as being a fine composer and a fine writer to boot, don't be tempted to leave just because your age is anomalous. Oh, and I'm assuming there is a new generation of young composers, hope they haven't been completely taken in by pop culture...

I don't know if you guys read the link I posted in the other thread, but Mark says that we can move my board over to this server eventually, and also have a new database-powered system for updating and viewing compositions (hopefully). This is what the site revamp will consist of. Some of you will react angrily to this, and I truly am sorry if it feels like the board you know and love is being unjustly ripped away from you, but I think it's in the best interests of YC. And if it doesn't work out, we can all go back to this one I suppose!

Yay, hello, Lee! :)

I actually know at least ten people who compose (classmates, orchestra people, one cousin of mine). My reasons for not doing any recruiting lie on the selfish side; at my high school I've built up a reputation for being hopelessly taciturn, and not only do I want to just get high school over with already as a result (two and a half weeks and counting!), but I don't want to look like a hypocrite either (none of these people is a close friend of mine particularly, which strikes me as weird, but I guess that's just how it went).

I found the main site of this place in October 2001. Thinking it was pretty much abandoned, I didn't even consider checking the forum until nearly a year later (after getting my first notation program and getting really excited about composition as a result). And I think this might be a problem of ours. If we can get the main site to work again, then I think we'll be pretty darn well off.

To be honest, I find other types of message boards restrictive. Every other one I've joined has started making me feel as if checking it is a chore, just because of the layout. I don't know why that is. This is the only one on which I don't feel that it's frustrating to read everything and to catch up. It's also one of the only places on the Internet other than my email where I actually feel like myself. I've been discouraged out of visiting at least two groups elsewhere by now - maybe three - for these reasons. I appreciate your intentions, Michael, but I'm not certain I'd come along if we were to move (and there's also a lot of history here, y'know). We'll have to see how it goes.

I would suggest that the reason that it seems like a chore is mainly down to the fact that threads get bumped up to the top every time they get replied to, making it feel less like you're in control. Also, you can't usually show everything on one page, unlike here. What you can do, however, is log into one of these more up-to-date boards and ask it to show you all new posts since your last visit (on Invision Power Board you click "View New Posts" at the top once logged in). Posts with replies since your last visit are also marked by a red square when viewing each forum.

In light of all this, I tried to strip the Invision interface down a bit, making it much cleaner. If you head over to www.freepgs.com/ycmb now, you'll be able to have a look around using the new skin. Some things that could be considered clutter are still there because I haven't figured out how to remove them yet. Maybe another day...

History! This could be a problem. Then again, if I informed Mark about the structure of the new board's database, it might just be possible to transfer everything from here to there using some kind of custom-written script. But this would be difficult, and would require someone to program it, so don't hold your breath.

Nothing's final for now, so we will indeed have to see how it goes. Watch this space.

"What you can do, however, is log into one of these more up-to-date boards and ask it to show you all new posts since your last visit (on Invision Power Board you click "View New Posts" at the top once logged in)."

Sounds a bit like on here, where you set up a subscription in 'bookmarks'. It even has a refresh rate so you don't have to click 'refresh' each time you want to check for new messages.

A custom script should be easy enough to write.

David,

I can't seem to do this. But I asked for some help on the Invision website, maybe someone else will know.

Update: I don't think it's possible to make searches auto refresh.

Another update: I told Mark that some of you people here would prefer to stay with WebCrossing's forum format. So he set things up so that we could have a preview of what a new generation version of the YCC forum using a more up to date version of the forum software could look like. It has support for attachments and moderators among other things.

http://forum.ableminds.com/go?14@67.hdCEaqxYajc.50802@.ee87d1b

Ignore all the other forums on the site, at the moment it's all in a testing phase. But if you like it then Mark can seperate the YC forum from all others and it'll look like its own dedicated forum.

Update: It is possible, and I just did it :) The View New Posts page refreshes automatically every 60 seconds.

Did you guys check out the new version of the web crossing software that Mark set up?

http://forum.ableminds.com/go?14@67.hdCEaqxYajc.50802@.ee87d1b

This is basically an updated version of this forum, with support for attachments and stuff. Tell me what you think.

Does the 'read new' button give you the next new post? This subscriptions system is one of the best things about this site and it would be a real shame to lose it.

A way to upload files quickly and easily would be good.

What is good about this board:

90% of the screen is filled with what you came here for: the words of the other people. No stupid avatars (although I can understand it would be nice to see what people looked like... - but yeah - what they look like. I don't want to see some Manga character or a smiley being sick or something), no wasted border space, no stupid smileys, all that sort of stuff.

What could be made better:

I've always found Times New Roman a pretty dull font. I guess it's just the default though, and it's my fault... but you know, something nicer would be good, perhaps.

I also came here first and submitted compositions. I then after a year or so discovered the forum. If I hadn't had my compositions accepted, I would never have returned. I think it's as simple as that why people aren't finding this as often.

Good to see you're still around, Lee (and well?)...

Oh can I be a judge! :) Motive compositions... those were the days...

The View New Posts function will show you all new posts since your last visit to the board. If somebody posts while you're logged in, and you haven't read that post yet, it will also be displayed on that page. So yes, everything new will be shown. Plus, I made it auto-refresh once a minute.

Avatars can be turned off as a per user option - it will only come into effect when you log in (doesn't require a cookie though). The new board (and by this I'm referring to the Invision Board) has Verdana as its font, I think. Plus, the simple skin I created strips the board down to the bear minimum, so it looks as clean and simple on screen as possible. Again, enabling this skin is a per user option, but it will still be remembered without a cookie.

Good stuff! :)