I Don’t Know (midi, pdf, & mp3)

This is really lame so beware! ;)

I’m neither a musician nor a composer (despite what my sig pic says). However, I have written a lot of poetry. Recently I’ve become interested in music and I do hobble around on a piano keyboard somewhat, but musically I’m the biggest klutz that ever lived.

In any case, I wanted to convert one of my poems into a song so I rewrote it a bit to make the lyrics more songlike. Then I stumbled around for hours trying to fit it into measures using various differnet times. I’m so lame I didn’t even know whether it should basically be 4/4 or 3/4. I figured probably 4/4 so I went with 12/8 just to get a lot of notes (and therefore words) in each measure (it’s kind of a wordy song).

Once I chose the time sig, I went on to fiddle with trying to come up with a melody and place it in the correct timing. This took me several days! Hey! This is my first time trying to do this, plus I’m also trying to learn how to use the tools in my new composition software (excuses excuses!)

So anyway, once I finally had it timed out somewhat satisfactorily I added a really lame piano accompaniment. Mostly just chords (I have no idea what key to write in so I wrote it in the key of C but it probably should be written in D minor or something like that. I have NO CLUE!

Alright, after I got the harmony in (if you can call that “harmony”) I wanted to fancy it up with some fill accompaniment between rests in the lyrics. I just stuck in whatever came naturally. I have absolutely no idea what I’m doing! But I’m kind of happy with it as crude as it is at this stage.

Finally (and I’m sure you can tell) I added a really lame lead-in, again with absolutely no clue what I’m doing. I think it turned out pretty nice considering that I have no clue what I’m doing actually (I know it's awkward, but I can always work on it). I know it will really sound lame to “real” musicians, but that's why I'm posting this. To get YOUR FEEDBACK!

Edited to add: I think I’m confused on what key I’m trying to write in. I seem to be starting out in the key of C, then trying to make a lame attempt to modulated into the key of D minor, yet the melody is obviously written in the key of C (no accidentals) and this first verse comes to rest on C-major chord which implies that I’m in the key of C. (as you can see I’m really confused!)

So my questions are as follows:

First, does it sound too much like “just any other song”? I can’t tell anymore. After working on it for days it’s starting to sound like I’ve heard it before. Or maybe I'm subconsciously trying to make it sound like something I've heard before?

Secondly, can anyone give me any pointers on how to write a smoother accompaniment? Should I change the time or the key? Should I start over from scratch? Should I give up music and go back to studying quantum mechanics?

Finally, is there anyone out there who thinks they might actually be able to teach me something about how to do this? If so, send me a PM and maybe we can make arrangements to meet in the “Lessons Forum”. I’m not really interested in trying to learn all of music theory. I’d just like some pointers on how to write songs with a smooth accompaniment. Like a procedural approach or something.

I have the chorus figured out in my head too, but getting it down on sheet music is not easy for me. I'm not sure if I should move on to the chorus, or go back and redo what I have until I learn how to make it smoother.

According to my sheet music program I have almost 30 hours invested in writing 44 seconds of music. However, the rest of the verses should follow from this one pretty easily. And like I say, this is my FIRST COMPOSITION! (as lame and incomplete as it is!) I have no education to do this, and probably no right to being doing it either. :w00t:

A Midi, PDF and mp3 can be found here: (plug your ears!)

I Don't Know

Thanks for reading my post. :cool:

I guess I should have posted this in "Advice and Techniques", sorry about that.

I started adding the chorus and uploaded the updated midi file. I'm not happy with the bridge I used to get there, but I suppose that can be cleaned up later.

How to you people work in the confines of MEASURES! :w00t:

I'd like to have just a little bit longer pause between the first three lines of the chorus. But in order to do that I'm either going to have to change the timing of each phrase (which I don't want to do), or I'm going to end up pushing everything out of "alignment". In other words, each new phrase will be staggered arbitrarily between measures. Seems to me that good songwriting should end up having symmetric looking measures to some degree. Should I maybe stick partial measures in between them? Is that the accepted method?

Eventually, I’d like to have a much better bridge between the first verse and the chorus. And I’d also like to have a little more delay between each line of the chorus with a couple notes or so of accompaniment leading into them. I’d like to write the music so that, while the melody is the same for the first three lines of the chorus, maybe the accompaniment can change a bit for each line so it doesn’t sound so boringly repetitive.

Any suggestions? Anyone out there know anything about writing music? :D

Note to mods: (If this thread would be better suited in “Advice and Techniques” please feel free to move it.) I probably should have posted it there in the first place. I only posted it here because it’s a vocal piece, but it’s far from being finished.

And with no help either! :laugh:

I think I did pretty good putting this thing together from scratch with no knowlege of what the heck I'm doing. Just wait until I learn how to do this for real!

:glare:

Check it out:

http://www.csonline.net/designer/ideas/dont_no.htm

I'm not able to listen to this right now, but I'd just like to make a comment one your time signature choice. 4/4 and 12/8 are not the same thing, the biggest difference is that 4/4 is a simple meter (beats are subdivided by 2) and 12/8 is a compound meter (beats are subdivided by 3). So 4/4 is like 4 beats per measure and a quarter note gets a beat, and 12/8 is like 4 beats a measure where a dotted quarter gets a beat. It's not just symantics, they both have different feels.

Sorry if you knew all this already.

I have no clue what I'm doing. I'm like a mechanic just looking for more bench space to hang up all my notes.

Can't you just put something like "tres expressif" or "rubato" on it and then all bets are off?

I think I'd go bananas if I had to write it in 4/4 time. The 12/8 time actually worked out fairly well, from a lyrical point of view. If i wrote it in 4/4 time I'd be tempted to turn the clock down low and using 16th and 32nd notes just to get a lot of words in a measure. I'm thinking purely mechanically here. It just seems to me that using 4/4 measures would make the score extremely ineloquent at least from a esthetics point of view.

I was thinking that while 12/8 time can be compound it doesn’t *need* to be. Am I wrong in that?

I seriously have no clue, and meter is my absolute weakest area, not only in writing, but in real life. I have always had a hard time following the beat of music. I could never dance because of that. It supposedly comes natural to most people, but it never came natural to me.

I do remember reading somewhere that there are composers who refuse to use bar lines at all. I guess they are rare but they do exist and I’m seriously thinking about becoming one of them. :musicwhistle:

I don't even know where the beats are in the song I wrote. I think they are scattered about randomly. :w00t:

I do know that I would like to get a handle on the beat though so I can make the song flow better.

Anyway, I thank you for your comment. I did learn that 12/8 could be compound meter, but what I didn't know was that it had to be compound meter. I thought that was merely an "option". In fact, I thought there were several differnet options for breaking it up different ways, but that was just my impression. I honestly don't understand meter well enough to know. I need hands-on experience. Theory is cool but I lose it if I can't actually see an actual concrete example.

I think I need to take some drum lessons or something. I'm serious too. I think that might help. I've tried using a metronome with my piano but it just gets me all confused. I have not yet been able to play with a metronome. Those things are despicable! They’re way out of time!

I uploaded the *.mus file for this, it’s on the web page too. (only 11 KB)

However, it’s only going to open for those who have Melody Assistant, I think.

If someone could put a drum beat into this or a baseline beat or something that might help me get a handle on the beat I’d be eternally grateful. :musicwhistle:

Listen, there are some great ideas in this, but it is obvious you need to learn music theory. At least the basics. Visit the lessons forum. There are knowledgeable people there, willing to teach you...don't miss this chance.

Listen, there are some great ideas in this, but it is obvious you need to learn music theory. At least the basics. Visit the lessons forum. There are knowledgeable people there, willing to teach you...don't miss this chance.

I'm working on that. I have my application in there for a teacher. :w00t:

I'm also studying the theory lessons at the 8notes site (see link in my sig)

I also purchased a 4 DVD set of music theory lessons from "The Teaching Company". You can Google them if you'd like to see the outline of their course. I've already watched the thing several times. It's pretty good I think.

But for me, I'm slow learner. I don't learn things well from just lectures. I need to actually put them into practice before I can really understand what's going on.

I'm currently studying the circle of fifths to try to get a feel for all the keys and chords.

In fact, if you’d like to take a look at that for me and check it for errors I’d appreciate. I just now loaded that onto my web page as well. (133 KB PDF)

It has all the triads, key signatures, chord names, roman numerals, and even guitar tabs (I play both piano and guitar so I need all the help I can get.)

I just made this Circle of Fifths up using my sheet music program and PC paint. Then I turned the whole mess into a PDF. The first four pages are going clockwise the second four pages go counterclockwise.

Yeah, I'm serious about trying to learn something about music. :musicwhistle:

In fact, if you

I actually meant to check my circle of fifths for errors.

I know the music I wrote is a technical disaster. But I had to start somewhere. I just thought I'd toss it out here for whatever feedback I can get.

Why view your music as a disaster? Perceive it as something to work on with love and knowledge.

I saw your circle, even though it belongs to a different thread. This is the diatonic progression on chords harmonically, in a given key, in major and natural minor.

The circle of fifths is this: The circle revealed!

Have fun!

If you want this to sound more coherent, it would be good for you to know that 12/8 time is basically the same as 4/4 time, it's just used when you want your piece to have a triple time feel to it; there are four beats to 12/8 time as well as 4/4. This being said, stress should come onto those beats. For example, the beat you put the word "sank" in "my heart sank" doesn't make a lot of sense rythmically because in most music no stress is put on the third eighth note of a measure in 12/8 time. I actually do think this piece should be in duple meter.

Another good course is Gary Ewer's music theory. I found it very helpful.

I hope I am of help.

Why view your music as a disaster? Perceive it as something to work on with love and knowledge.

!

Very few pieces are ever beyond help. You have made the first and most important step to becoming a world class composer....composing.

Everyone's first pieces are going to be lacking something. But the best part about it, is that the more you do, the better you get.

Symphony Concertante

12/8 has to be a compound meter, but as I understand it you wanted to have more notes per measure? To do this you could do something like 4/2 where you would have 4 half notes per measure, giving you 16 eigth notes per measure versus 8 in 4/4.

But really why not just have more measures?

What has really helped me with meter has been finding a very common melody (happy birthday, row your boat ,etc...), and trying to guess what meter it is in (triple or duple, simple or compound). Sing it to yourself and feel the strong beats, etc... You can find the sheet music for these kinds of songs online to check yourself.

12/8 has to be a compound meter.

I didn't know that. That could explain why I can't seem to find the beat then. :toothygrin:

but as I understand it you wanted to have more notes per measure? To do this you could do something like 4/2 where you would have 4 half notes per measure, giving you 16 eigth notes per measure versus 8 in 4/4. But really why not just have more measures?

I suppose it's just a personal quirky thing. I tend to like things to be neat and I hate tying notes over and having bar lines in the middle of a phrase. I guess musically it's totally irrelavent, but for some reason I feel better about things if the score looks "neat".

What has really helped me with meter has been finding a very common melody (happy birthday, row your boat ,etc...), and trying to guess what meter it is in (triple or duple, simple or compound). Sing it to yourself and feel the strong beats, etc... You can find the sheet music for these kinds of songs online to check yourself.

That sounds like a really good suggestion. I know this is something I need to work on. I should just focus on meter and get it squared away before doing anything else. I do have two really nice metronomes here to work with. I guess I'm going to have to bite the bullet and face the dragon of meter first thing before I try moving forward.

I saw Mark is looking at Bongos, I was thinking maybe that would help me too, but then I figured, nah, I'd rather have a pocket trumpet so I ordered one. :P

I should be able to find the beat just playing the piano, guitar and other instruments. I can actually play melodies fairly well I think. But I have serious problems when it comes to playing a duet with something like a midi for accompanyment. I just can't seem to keep in time with the accompanyment.

But something like "Row Row Row Your Boat", now that I might be able to keep in time with!

I try it tonight.