Avant-garde music

I haven't been around for quite some time, but I think this is an opportunity for me to start a new thread.

I've been wandering around the Avant-garde and electronic music section of YC, only to be highly disappointed by the amount of pieces which are not at all avant-garde, not even "modern", but are still located in this forum.

Firstly, I'd like to know how the composers of these pieces decided that their piece is "avant-garde", and why they chose to put it here, and secondly, I'd like to know who's moderating this forum and why these pieces are still here :| I am not saying these are bad pieces of music, I am just saying they shouldn't be in this forum.

We don't generally moderate to the effect of re-categorising works for organisational purposes. And yes, there have been comments in the past regarding the distinct lack of actual avant-garde music here. Possibly people don't tend to know the true meaning of the term.

Also, I'm moving this thread to Composer's Headquarters, since it is not a piece of avant-garde/electronic music. Ironic, eh? ;)

My thought is that since this is a young composers' forum, chances are pretty good that most of the young composers here have not had enough exposure to formal study yet, and are probably not up to that "chapter" yet in their compositional output.

If this were a forum for doctoral candidates in composition, I think you'd see a completely different sort of submission appearing.

Yeah, sorry about that :P It's not the lack of avant-garde music that I mind, but rather the mistaken idea of avant-garde music. Maybe you should be more strict and do some re-caterogisation of works in that forum, so that people will refrain from posting non-avantgarde pieces in it? Because if they see romantic pieces in there, they might think that they can as well post romantic pieces in there. Or maybe people are doing so because they think that more people will see their work if it's located in the Avant-garde forum than the forum it would normally belong to.

Qccowboy: yes, but then again, what *young* composers consider "modern", "experimental" and "avant-garde" might as well be just normal music fro doctoral candidates in composition, and what they would consider as "avant-garde", youngcomposers might not even think is music.

I personally don't believe there should be a separate forum for Avant-garde music, because then we'd have to have classical, baroque, romantic, folk, pop and jazz sections as well, for all different kinds of instrumentation. And what if someone writes an avant-garde orchestral work, that he doesn't consider avant-garde? Is he allowed to post it in the Orchestral forum? If yes, then what's the point of the Avant-garde forum? Plus, while all the other categories emphasize on instrumentation (chamber, orchestral, large ensemble, keyboard etc), the "avant-garde" term describes a piece in terms of style, not in orchestration, so there would be a clash there (as with the orchestral avant-garde piece I mentioned abobe)

I think that "avant-garde" should be omitted from that forum, and it should just remain an "electronic music" forum, and that all kinds of music are allowed to be posted in all categories.

But that's just my opinion... You guys take the final decisions, and I can't really do much about it, other than just let you know what I am thinking, can I? :P

You definately have a point there.

The "avantgarde" nomenclature is a stylistic issue, and really shouldn't be confused with instrumentation.

I will bring that up with the other mods.

Thank-you.

Here in Canada, the term "avant-garde" simply refers to any art that is pushing boundaries. Therefore, it is not limited to any particular era.

So I guess there are multiple uses for the term.

Which still leaves the issue of "style" being in that particular forum title.

from Wikipedia:

"Avant-garde in French means "front guard", "advance guard", or "vanguard". The term is commonly used in French, English, and German to refer to people or works that are experimental or novel, particularly with respect to art, culture, and politics.

Avant-garde represents a pushing of the boundaries of what is accepted as the norm, or the status quo, primarily in the cultural realm. The notion of the existence of the avant-garde is considered by some to be a hallmark of modernism, as distinct from postmodernism. Postmodernism posits that the age of the constant pushing of boundaries is no longer with us. Postmodernism posits that avant-garde has less applicability (or no applicability at all) in the age of Postmodern art."

And "contemporary" music is the music of now, so basically, anything written at this period of time is contemporary (or after 1975, in general terms). So basically, there is little point of having a separate category for "contemporary music" as again, it is a categorisation in terms of time and not style or instrumentation.

In any case, both terms are not related to instrumentation, which is the basic criteria for the rest of the categories (apart from "incidental music" which is kinda different).

Montpellier, I'm not sure why you're being both antagonistic and contrary.

Regardless of whose definition of "avant-garde" corresponds to whichever reality, it is still a "stylistic" nomenclature.

The original exception taken with the term is valid, regardless of whose definition is more prevalent.

You're saying that the word refers to a specific period of music.

I was simply letting you know that the term here in Canada still holds its original French definition. However, either way we look at it, it still refers to a "style/period" of composition, and as such the OP feels that this precludes it from being an appropriate title for a forum section when all the other forum section titles refer to the physical resources used in a composition, regardless of stylistic concerns.

I'm sorry if you feel this is me trying "have the last word". I could say you are attempting to do the same. I am trying to bring this discussion back to the intent of the original observation made.

Juji is quoting from a Wiki page.

Why are you asking him to justify what is written in the quote?

Besides, regardless of whether or not "avant-garde" refers to a specific period or a general musical/artistic trend (which is the ONLY contentious point in this discussion so far), it STILL is a stylistic concern, and as such does not belong in a forum heading where all other headings are purely mechanical concerns (ie: size or make-up of ensemble).

I dare say, look who is trying to get the last word in now?

Juji is quoting from a Wiki page.

Why are you asking him to justify what is written in the quote?

I beg your pardon? Where did I do that? I HATE being misquoted/misrepresented.

I dare say, look who is trying to get the last word in now?

I beg your pardon? Where did I do that?

In one of your earlier posts. Which you have now deleted.

Nice job avoiding the heat. ;)

Deleting your own posts from a forum just because you can do so in order to avoid conflict is highly unethical in terms of abusing your powers in the site. I know it sounds too philosophical, but what I mean is that you are supposed to only delete posts which conflict with the rules of the site; thus unless we can discuss in a mature way, I have no interest in taking part in this discussion anymore, sorry.