Guest QcCowboy Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 The question is not whether or not you build on the past. The question is how you build on the past. Every well-informed composer builds on the past, as surely as today builds on yesterday. except you can't build on the past if you deny its very existance "before me, there was no music" (Pierre Boulez) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikolas Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Let's agree that the OP has been rather rude constantly over here, with rather arogant views and insulting comments about many composers... Let's agree that he is entitled to his opinion. Let's also agree that Carter is not some random guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QcCowboy Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Well, there's Gary Carter the baseball player... and Chris Carter, creator of X-Files... and Jimmy Carter, ex-president of the U.S... and Alexander Scott Carter, the heraldic painter... and John Carter, the author... and this is going to get REALLY obscure because I'm running out of "Carters" to list. The Magna Carter? Putting the ox before the Carter? Driving the carter work? Take carter not step in that dog poop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikolas Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camaysar Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 "before me, there was no music" (Pierre Boulez) Good one, Michel. He also apparently said, "Any musician who has not experienced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Gorrick Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Thank God there are still original composers writing intelligent music like Carter out there (other interesting composers include Milton Babbitt and Charles Wuorinen) in the American contemporary music scene which is mainly dominated by conservatism, mediocrity, regression to neo-styles and an amazing lack of original ideas (think of Philip Glass, John Adams, John Corigiliano, John Harbison, Aaron Jay Kernis, Joan Tower, and so on).Are there more people here who are familiar with Carter's string quartets, if so, what do you think of them, which one is your favorite? I can't take people who champion Carter and Babbit and in the same breath bash obviously much more successful composers very seriously. Gianluca, you're a joke. I really hope you aren't pursuing composition as a career choice. Even if you are, have fun with your supposed "heightened intelligence", you contain the same vitriol as your best buddies Babbit and Carter. It's kind of funny, all the "neo" composers you mentioned are actually still pretty modernist. I guess they just don't matter because people actually like it, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Gently Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Ok, ignoring any talk of opinions of modern composers and contemporary composition.....I love Beethoven's late string quartets and Shostakovich's string quartets :w00t:. My favorite being the Grosse Fugue of Beethoven.....I just love that piece :happy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianluca Posted January 7, 2008 Author Share Posted January 7, 2008 Gianluca, you're in no way interested in generating discussion. You just need to belittle others and agrandize yourself.You reject anything that is not what YOU think is worthy, and then accuse others of being intolerant of your opinions. You've actually amply demonstrated this in a number of posts now. I have no interest in discussing with you. It's exactly like talking to a robot that blindly repeats the dogma with which it's been programmed. I have never accused others of being intolerant of my opinion. Neither have I ever been directly rude to anyone here. I am open to counterarguments from those who disagree with me, but I reject counterarguments I don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinjessome Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I am open to counterarguments from those who disagree with me, but I reject counterarguments I don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I reject Gianluca's existence, therefore I don't have to stay on topic. :whistling: Yes, late Beethoven is great, Verdi_lver. Some of the 'modern' works written back then (by B and similar) are still modern today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardener Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Forget about Shostakovich, listen to Carter and Ferneyhough! Listen to all three! Shostakovich, in my opinion, is a highly modern composer, or even rather post-modern. The subversive irony behind those exaggerated beautiful melodies and pompous marches, the constant ambiguity, the rough crags behind the tonal face are, to me, a constant source of wonder. Not unlike Mahler, just quite a bit harsher. It sounds so shamelessly blatant and is so obscure at the same time. And Ferneyhough's music definitely has aspects that fascinate me a lot. Maybe even for the same reason: It is very uncompromising about its appearance, yet gets very obscure and ambiguous if you want to get "into" it, offering a wide variety of views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Gorrick Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I have never accused others of being intolerant of my opinion. Neither have I ever been directly rude to anyone here. I am open to counterarguments from those who disagree with me, but I reject counterarguments I don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardener Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 As we look back, we respect Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern now but not because of the music's effect on us, but how it was constructed. ...that's it. Now, now, let's not generalise in the other direction! I happen to love this music, especially Webern's, for how it sounds. I enjoy them, I find them beautiful. I already liked them before I knew anything about dodecaphony. And while many "average people" don't appreciate this music I know people without any musical training, who can't even read notes, who like their music. (My father, for example.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikolas Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Gardener, Lay down, Relax and tell us more about your father. How did he reflect your own development in music, as a father figure in your home? :D No, honestly. Too strong opinions are the ones who make the world turn around. Giancula, I know his nick already! I can't for the shake of me remember other people really. :P Some pianomanxxx (number) are simply impossible... :P Giancula: Why don't you relax with your opinion, try to state what you want to stay wit your music (since it's Young COMPOSERS forum) and relax. You are not THAT amazing, that your opinion values more than others. Nobody is, and in all honesty I tend to turn off the telly when Bush, or other moronic politicians are on. Even if they control the whole world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Gorrick Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Gianluca is god's gift to music that no one's ever heard Woops, did I say that out loud. I don't want to sound mean spirited, but really the last thing we as "classical" musicians need to do is alienate ourselves artistically from the rest of the world EVEN MORE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardener Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Gardener, Lay down, Relax Good idea :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePianoMan121 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 The "121" in my name is actually a reference to a semi-obscure punk band, believe it or not. ;) As we look back, we respect Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern now but not because of the music's effect on us, but how it was constructed. ...that's it. Hey now, speak for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikolas Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 The "121" in my name is actually a reference to a semi-obscure punk band, believe it or not. ;) Punk!?!?!??!?!? Band???!?!?! INFIDEL INFIDEL Giancula: Off with his head! :w00t: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePianoMan121 Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Er, I mean it's a reference to the opus number of...um...dang, Webern doesn't have a 121st opus, does he. Yeah, it's a punk band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camaysar Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 As we look back, we respect Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern now but not because of the music's effect on us, but how it was constructed. ...that's it. With all respect, one should not presume to know how music affects others. Schoenberg, Berg and Webern are listened to with pleasure by many. Only one person can judge the quality of music... the person listening to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavingSpleen Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I like Benjamin Franklin's string quartet (providing he was the one who actually composed it). It's just so novel to think that the first "civilized" american, one of the founding fathers, may have written a string quartet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianluca Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 Now, now, let's not generalise in the other direction! I happen to love this music, especially Webern's, for how it sounds. I enjoy them, I find them beautiful. I already liked them before I knew anything about dodecaphony. And while many "average people" don't appreciate this music I know people without any musical training, who can't even read notes, who like their music. (My father, for example.) Go Gardener, go Gardener! I like this comment of yours. I'd like to add here that Schoenberg's shift to atonality was a natural, logical and historically necessary step in the evolution of Western art music. Giancula: Why don't you relax with your opinion, try to state what you want to stay wit your music (since it's Young COMPOSERS forum) Good idea, Nikolas. I hope to post some of my music on this forum one of these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Gorrick Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Go Gardener, go Gardener! I like this comment of yours. I'd like to add here that Schoenberg's shift to atonality was a natural, logical and historically necessary step in the evolution of Western art music.Good idea, Nikolas. I hope to post some of my music on this forum one of these days. Schoenberg's piano works are pretty great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Schoenberg's shift to atonality was a natural, logical and historically necessary step in the evolution of Western art music. I'm glad you have the authority to say that, God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anders Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Schoenberg's shift to atonality was a natural, logical and historically necessary step in the evolution of Western art music. Agreed! ''Western Art Music™'' is, after all, a canticle to concrete, houses, cars and landfills (or a perverse romanticization of that which lies beyond it), and what better way to express such utterly profound emotion than through strict twelve tone music!!?? Oh yes!! Baby! :w00t: *straddles off, whistling rows* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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