Orchestral emulation exercise, need feedback.

I thought of a neat little exercise in order to improve my orchestral emulation skills. I took the score and audio of Beethoven's 5th Symphony and tried to emulate it using virtual instruments. Here are the results (only the first part of the 1st movement):

Beethoven: listen online

I'd recommend anyone wanting to be able to realistically emulate an orchestra to try doing something like this. I definitely learned some new things, not just about virtual orchestras, but also about orchestration.

That's marvelous. The only thing I found objectionable was that it sounded like the accoustic was too wet. I'd have pulled some of the reverb out of it.

Reverb tends to cover up any not very realistic sounding parts.

Then it's more of an exercise in hiding your lack of skills than one to improve them, correct?

I don't have a lot to say besides firm agreement that the reverb sounds terrible. It also, as you say, hides anything that I might otherwise have commented upon, so less learnage for you.

This type of excersize is considered a very good one for a starter in samples! And this mock-up sounds very good actually! (what sample library, if I may ask?)

Elkdkatt: Sample libraries are NOT orchestras, and certainly have flaws, so when one is striving to use it in a realistic manner, one should try to, exactly, hide it's flaws. Usually people write specifically for a sample library, knowing the weakness and strengths however. In an idiomatic sense for... the computer mock-up! You get to use realistic sounds to do something which is near impossible in a real orchestra. If the plan on making a mock-up as the final product (eg. I'm doing that for the computer games I'm working on), then it's a great idea. If you want, exactly a mock-up for the director to use before you go hit the recording studios, then you do need realistic results...

The reveb sounds not dry, not at all, but of... bad quality! What is it? Reverb only will add to the realism, it's not there to hide anything, it's there to put your orchestra into a realistic space...

I suppose I haven't configured my reverb very well. It's actually Altiverb 6, a great convolution reverb. The samples are coming from East & West Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra Gold Bundle (long name, must mean it's good!) :)

Ok!

Then this is your problem, (obviously). The EWQL gold samples are wet, by default. They already have reverb on, so the usual is to NOT use any reverb on them. Altiverb is indeed great, but not useful for EW products! EW advertises heavily that this is an advantage. If you head over to my webpage and listen to an orchestral sample (or check some threads here), you'll hear how EWQL Gold sounds "dry" (with no additional reverb).

Just take out altiverb and the improvent will be vast, immediately I can 95% guarantee that! :)

You mean it sounds "wet", right? I noticed that, but some instruments sound wetter than others I think.

have you visited the EW site? Sounds Online . Do you have the manual? Not being rude, but these are the advertised advantages of EW!

The orchestra was not recorded in a studio, but in a concert hall with 3 microphones. one close, one far and one surround (C, F, and S mics). The platinum version of EW orchestra has all 3 mic positions recorded and 24-bit samples. Gold (which you have) is 16-bit and only the F mic.

Imagine so that the orchestra is EXACTLY where it would be sitting in a concert and you get a mic in the front sits of the concert hall, not near the instruments! The first violins which are closer to the mic, will sound a bit closer and to the left. All instruments are panned to the recording already, so no need for panning either. The harp which is in the back might sound... wetter. The percussion even more. The contrabass sound to the right and louder, clearer, drier.

It will be immensly useful to read the manual that comes in the box. :)

I think you have done a great job of giving this sample-realised piece some life which is always the difficulty with midi reproductions. I would assume that you spent a long time editing individual notes in order to get appropriate dynamic variations and build- ups and getting tempo variations right. I agree that with EWQLSO Gold you do not need any added reverb as it is already too wet.

So what sequencing programme did you use and how long did it take to get this done? The placement of 1st (left) and 2nd (right) vlns comes through well on your recording.

It took me a couple of days working a few hours each day. I used the latest Sonar.

Nikolas, you are correct about everything except the panning, it does not have automatic panning, every instrument is centered. And yes I frequently go to their site and I did read the manual. :)

Maxx. It doesn't have automatic panning per se, but they are recorded pre panned, in their original place. Listen closely to the solo violin, for example (which is more evident) and then the contrabasses and you'll hear that the one is towards the left and the others towards the right. ;) Recroded in their natural position!

Elkdkatt: Sample libraries are NOT orchestras, and certainly have flaws, so when one is striving to use it in a realistic manner, one should try to, exactly, hide it's flaws.

Yes, but not more than necessary. Given enough reverb, a well-programmed virtual orchestra is indistinguishable from a badly programmed one (or even a bad sample library): The flaws are hidden, sure, but so are the merits! If you take the trouble to do it well from the start you might find that you don't need as much crazy post-processing, and we'll be able to hear all those neat little details you put in. Otherwise it's like putting on an inch-thick layer of make-up, claiming it's necessary, when you're really just too lazy just to wash your face first.