Marching Band Closer - Need Critique UPDATED 11.29.08

EDIT (11.29.2008): NEW VERSION, ALSO PERCUSSION BY ****

Hi all,

This is a very rough draft of a "closer" (3rd movement) for a marching band show...

Please give it a listen and follow along with the PDF of the score.

Things that I would specifically like help/comments on:

1) overall effect of the music (esp. those of you familiar with marching band, DCI, drumcorps, etc) -- is it captivating? entertaining? boring?

2) percussion !!!! ok - definitely my weak point (if i had to choose just one)... Most of it is not even written yet and what is written is just brainstorming - any ideas, please let me know.

3) Instrument ranges - am I expecting too much here? I am more concerned with woodwinds than brass as the difficulty of what I have written is more a function of the quality of the player than the instrument

4) music theory / orchestration / counterpoint - which rules am i breaking? what would make it better?

5) MIDI / VST / Computer junk. Any suggestions or criticisms about the audio file or instrumentation, etc. using Sibelius

6) anything else you are an expert in

I can take criticism of my writing. Just ask my wife - so dont be afraid to be blunt - for better or for worse.

Thanks, I really appreciate it.

Here is the MP3:

MP3: III. Closer by Bryan2449

PS. Don't worry about score layout issues --- Ill work on that later.

this is amazing

it needs to be longer though

It will be longer - this is only the first minute. It will be about 2 minutes, 30 seconds long when its done.

The fastest I have ever marched is 150, haha...172 would be hard (unless you do half time marching)

ummmm, measures 20 and 23 would be weak points for a small band. Usually Higher woodwinds tend to not be heard up in the press box with the adjudicators unless its a big band with many people in the section. The bass clarinet part in that part also you should double it. Bass clarinet WILL NOT be heard, I've tried to be heard last year, never happened, so I think the low brass for Bari Sax should double that part. Marching band is a differnt concept than concert band or orchestral writing. Yet, you still need to apply the concert concepts into a field while playing, yeah I know its confusing.

2 measures after C the xyl. part. that seems kind of hard to do at 172. I dont think my hands would move that fast to do the 16th notes.

Again, the bass clarinet parts need to be doubled, because there is a lot of parts the bass clarinet plays with another section that is not playing the same thing.

Measure 37 and 38, I have never seen marimba music like that as if it was Piano. When I arranged my alma mater for marching band, the pit people and instructor was telling me to re write it.

I thought there was only 5 marching bass drums there is parts where you used a whole note and put in 6 basses.

haha! 16th note run for the clarinet at 172, if this is for a high school, good luck to them, that is hard, in the same measure you used a divisi part on the marimba, its not piano music, and to me that looks like piano music, Pit uses mallets and its not the same as using fingers.

Litening to it again, Sounds more like an orchestral piece. THen again, the Caveliers played the firebird suite, so I guess that does not matter, just it sounds more like an orchestral piece.

It sounds cool, but the sounds are indoor not outdoors and it will sound different outdoors in the open, the sound will go everywhere and spread, so you wont be able to hear everything clear as it is in the recording. I still think the 16th notes are hard for HS wind players at this tempo. The recording ends with me wanting more of the music..........!!!!!! not good for a closer, adjudicators will dock points for both music and GE (General Effect).

The fastest I have ever marched is 150, haha...172 would be hard (unless you do half time marching)

I've done up to 212 bpm so I don't worry about this too much. It might end up being a bit slower in the end.

ummmm, measures 20 and 23 would be weak points for a small band. Usually Higher woodwinds tend to not be heard up in the press box with the adjudicators unless its a big band with many people in the section. The bass clarinet part in that part also you should double it. Bass clarinet WILL NOT be heard, I've tried to be heard last year, never happened, so I think the low brass for Bari Sax should double that part. Marching band is a differnt concept than concert band or orchestral writing. Yet, you still need to apply the concert concepts into a field while playing, yeah I know its confusing.

I agree - I will double the bass clarinet parts and add more instrumentation to the woodwind features. I am assuming that I am writing this for a fairly large group... However, your point still needs to be addresses. Thanks!

2 measures after C the xyl. part. that seems kind of hard to do at 172. I dont think my hands would move that fast to do the 16th notes.

Maybe not - could be split among multiple players perhaps. I'll have to think about this more.

Again, the bass clarinet parts need to be doubled, because there is a lot of parts the bass clarinet plays with another section that is not playing the same thing.

Yes. I agree.

Measure 37 and 38, I have never seen marimba music like that as if it was Piano. When I arranged my alma mater for marching band, the pit people and instructor was telling me to re write it.

Good call. Like I said, percussion is my Achilles heal. I'll consult a percussionist for how to write this properly.

I thought there was only 5 marching bass drums there is parts where you used a whole note and put in 6 basses.

(See above :P )

haha! 16th note run for the clarinet at 172, if this is for a high school, good luck to them, that is hard, in the same measure you used a divisi part on the marimba, its not piano music, and to me that looks like piano music, Pit uses mallets and its not the same as using fingers.

I wouldn't put it past a good high-school band. They can hold to play this part if needed- they dont need to be moving necessarily.

Litening to it again, Sounds more like an orchestral piece. THen again, the Caveliers played the firebird suite, so I guess that does not matter, just it sounds more like an orchestral piece.

It sounds cool, but the sounds are indoor not outdoors and it will sound different outdoors in the open, the sound will go everywhere and spread, so you wont be able to hear everything clear as it is in the recording. I still think the 16th notes are hard for HS wind players at this tempo. The recording ends with me wanting more of the music..........!!!!!! not good for a closer, adjudicators will dock points for both music and GE (General Effect).

I guess that's a good thing. This is only the 1st minute of the closer - there is still another 1:30 minutes after this that I haven't written yet... So don't worry ... You will be satisfied in the end. :D

I agree that 16th notes are hard - I feel like it is the responsibility of the composer to challenge the marchers - but I will review these parts, esp. the more difficult ones and change them if they are too hard.

Thanks for taking the time to comment. I appreciate it.

No problem, I like marching band :)

My year as horn sergeant is almost over, since I am a senior. :( It was nice being one of the higher ranked leadership people, just really difficult having people listen to me, haha. oh well. :)

As far as marching speeds, look into WGI shows, our show last year ended at 216 and we STILL rushed it.

If this is the ballad of the show then it is absolutely amazing, its enthralling and it has great overall harmony and melody but watch out on your orchestration, the 1st trumpet part in measure 41 goes to high. If you ask a 1st trumpet to play a high C or D at high school level you will often get complaints, VERY quiet playing or terrible noises and this bar has a high F (E#).

UPDATED LINKS ON ORIGINAL POST ABOVE.... 11.29.2008

there's no pdf on the updated one.

You can use six basses, look at L.D. Bell High School in Texas and at Bands of America. They use six. Also don't water down the difficulty of spots unless it is professionally impossible, which I don't hear really. A good high school will take up a challenge and rise to it. Nice Shostakovich quote around 1:30, reminds me of Phantom 1996, as well as Irmo HS 2001.

Okay, here we go:

The intro is very nice, I can see it coming out of a percussion feature or a ballad with these mallet movements. It gets pretty difficult in those spots. When the winds come in, I foresee a lot of visuals going on until low brass comes in, then it all begins to come together around 0:45 for the build to the hit at 0:56, like a faux-band front. Nice, but I kind of don't like how it goes down to zero again so suddenly for a closer. I guess I'd have to hear the rest of the piece. The snare solo up to the Shostakovich quote is a bit boring. Is there a theme to this show? I'm wondering where that quote came in.

You have quite a few builds to hits, but followed by dying down, only to build again which is giving me a false hope of a real huge hit several times. I like the dissonance build around 2:33. For the ending, I don't hear enough low brass, and to give it more of an effect at the hit, be sure you have low brass in octaves.

Overall it's good, I just am left with the feeling of "It's missing something", as if it's missing some sort of hit to bring all of the themes presented together.

papajohn56 said:

You can use six basses, look at L.D. Bell High School in Texas and at Bands of America. They use six. Also don't water down the difficulty of spots unless it is professionally impossible, which I don't hear really. A good high school will take up a challenge and rise to it. Nice Shostakovich quote around 1:30, reminds me of Phantom 1996, as well as Irmo HS 2001.

Yeah, I could use 6. Just a personal choice here. Also, the percussion you heard is no longer in the score. **** is writing the percussion book. Hopefully, I will have an update with the real percussion included, sometime soon.

Okay, here we go:

papajohn56 said:

The intro is very nice, I can see it coming out of a percussion feature or a ballad with these mallet movements. It gets pretty difficult in those spots. When the winds come in, I foresee a lot of visuals going on until low brass comes in, then it all begins to come together around 0:45 for the build to the hit at 0:56, like a faux-band front. Nice, but I kind of don't like how it goes down to zero again so suddenly for a closer. I guess I'd have to hear the rest of the piece. The snare solo up to the Shostakovich quote is a bit boring. Is there a theme to this show? I'm wondering where that quote came in.

Same comments on the percussion - hopefully I can post an update soon. Also, much in the winds has changed already. I appreciate your comments about how you see this playing out on the field. From E to F there will be a percussion feature. The snare stuff is just a place holder for now.

papajohn56 said:

You have quite a few builds to hits, but followed by dying down, only to build again which is giving me a false hope of a real huge hit several times. I like the dissonance build around 2:33. For the ending, I don't hear enough low brass, and to give it more of an effect at the hit, be sure you have low brass in octaves.

Overall it's good, I just am left with the feeling of "It's missing something", as if it's missing some sort of hit to bring all of the themes presented together.

I agree. And many of these problems have been addressed. Also, I have been playing around with Playback in Sibelius to get the low brass to come through more. Had to end up running the low brass and mellos through an effects bus to boost the volume. I will look at putting the low brass in octaves towards the end. That's a good idea - at least in baritones and sousaphones.

Thanks for taking the time to listen and comment. Look for an update soon (maybe in the next week). I would love to have you give it another listen to comment on the recent changes.

Thanks!