My Counterpoint Studies (and music in General)

So rather than pull the counterpoint threads completely off topic, I am making a thread.

I am currently beginning "active study" as opposed to my lack of learning as a whole. I recently recevieved two counterpoint books: Fux, and Salzer/Schachter. I plan on using both as supplimentary to one another.

Although the primary purpose of this thread it counterpoint, I hope that more than just that will be covered. (i.e. all the stuff you covered in the shoutbox, Mael. ;)) My hope is that this will also be able to function as a helpful resource to others (kind of like the lesson threads).

The first exercise in the Salzer book is to create Cantus Fermi. I will attach those, and we will start from there.

All help is fully welcomed and appretiated! I thank all of you in advance.

The first set (of 12) was the first try, these are uncorrected, but with criticism, I created the second set (of 6), also uncorrected, but with critism from elsewhere.

EDIT---

Cantus Firmus 2 - Updated.(2/26)

[Cantus Firmus 2].pdf

DC-

Sorry for the delay.

Let's start with the C minor one from Cantus Firmus 2. First, when writing cantus firmus in a minor key you will not use the harmonic minor scale. You may use EITHER the ascending or descending melodic minor. In classical European/North American music (and those cultures strongly influenced by it) the augmented second is considered a HARMONIC interval. That is it will occur in the inner voices usually in 3 or more voices to support a harmony (usually a diminished 7 triad). Also, this is begun to be used in 18th century counterpoint.

So, the A flat to B natural is illegal - the B natural should be a B flat.

Second point, you end on an A flat - which is a possible tonal area to visit but NOT to conclude. If you are in C minor (in this case descending melodic minor) then you MUST begin and end on C.

Third, your descent A flat E flat D C is too abrupt. Usually descending skips greater than a third are filled in with smaller intervals and/or stepwise motion. So a better solution would be A flat - down to E flat - up to F - up to G - down to D - up to E flat - down to D & C.

Ascending melodies usually begin with larger leaps and are followed by smaller intervals - this is what you did well for the first part of your cantus firmus.

Look over the rest of your cantus firmus for any of these errors.

I can't remember, but I think I did do some corrections to these... I will look around my files, and then keep in mind what you mentioned.

I will probably update in the next day or so..

Thank you.

Okay, so I looked at the exercise again, keeping in mind what you said and made a few changes.

I also did another set of 5, but this time I did only two key changes, and, as Maelstrom suggested, two utilizing modes. I know almost nothing about modes so I don't expect those to be perfect. (If anyone wants to explain modes, feel free!)

(I removed the first set of Fermi so that there would be less material for people to sift through.)

[Cantus Firmus 3].pdf

Okay, I am trying out first species.

The order goes, D, E, F, G, A, C. All but C, are written by Fux. (C was written by me to see if I could incorporate both Firmi writing and 1st Species.)

First, I write a second voice with the Cantus below, then I write a line below.

[First Species].pdf

DC - Sorry for the delay.

First on your new cantus firmi - I see improvements - you are paying more attention to your ascents and descents by making them more gradual -- one serious error - in 16th century and even 18th century the cantus firmus avoids leaps of a tritone - so the f-B or B-F is forbidden.

Also large ascending leaps of a major sixth have to be approached with smaller leaps usually. What you did isn't wrong but a little out of style - seems more romantic.

As for your 1st species ctrpoint -

First good work and you have some good sections. However you have a few errors -

1) MM 31 - no dissonances on strong beats - so that would be the 1st and 3rd whole note. Check where it is.

2) You have either direct parallel 5th (eg moving from one P5 to another P5 in the same direction) or hidden fifths (approaching a 5th with both voices in the same direction example - E-C ( a maj 3rd) to D-G (a P5). Also you approached P4th in the same direction and check also if you have a P4 for the 1st or 3rd whole (eg the strong beats).

Check the following measures - 4,5 24, 25, 28 - for the above.

If you are studying Fux, melodies spelling chords or having a more harmonic function is not unusual in this 18th counterpoint style BUT it is unusual for the counterpoint melody to spell 4 consecutive 3rds - this creates all sorts of 7th chords. This would not be common to 16th or 18th century styles. So for future exercises, avoid this.

Last, for further exercises you are allowed to use only one cantus firmus of your own - I want you to work harder honing one strong cantus firmus and writing a counterpoint to it. Select cantus firmus from Fux and if you can find the jeppesen use one of his examples. Limit yourself to doing three at a time as it is difficult for me to spend the time needed to check all you gave me. Also, it is better I think to concentrate on a few exercises rather than many.

Okay, so I only did four this time. (trying to make life easier for you :P)

The first is one by Jeppesen that is in one of my books, the second is the same line in the upper voice. The third is by Salzer/Schachter. The last is another one by me.

Thanks for spending so much time on this.

To everyone else: Feel free to chime in with questions, comments, anything.

[1st Species 2].pdf

First off for all except your cantus firmus the counterpoint is correct - bravo! Now be sure not to rely too often having the same intervals occur consecutively - even if they are legal. So you didn't really break rules even in this respect but do try to limit consecutive 6ths and thirds to no more than 3.

Now on your cantus firmus you made some mistakes which you made earlier. Look carefully from mm 28 onwards and tell me a) Did you use all allowable intervals? b) Are there any parallel 8s or 5s?

I am confident at this point you will answer these questions easily.

hm, okay...

I remembering having some issues with mine, so it doesn't suprise me.

a.) in measure 33 there is a fourth. I think. (but if you call it a fifth, it is still parallel)

b.)from 28-29 is parallel octaves.

Also, by consecutive 3rds and 6th, should it be broken up by 5ths and octaves?

DC - yeah you are allowed to break up 3rd and 6ths with 5th and octaves but what you have is correct and good. This is just something to keep in mind for future exercises and composition in general.

Bravo - you caught the illegal interval - the 4th and the parallel octaves.

Why do some 2nd species and I can show you 3rd species after that. It may be easier to discuss this on an individual basis

okay. Been a little busy with school, but I have found a bit of time to try out 2nd Species again.

I used the first cantus firmus in the 2nd Species chapter in Fux. Hopefully I did it write.

[2nd Species 1].pdf

DC -

You are improving just check the following for errors -

1) Approaching octaves in similar motion from another octave results in parallel octaves which is ILLEGAL. You have them in your first counterpoint assignment (half notes in soprano).

2) Approaching fifths and octaves in similar motion from any other preceding interval except octaves or fifths results in "hidden octaves" or "hidden fifths". So if from a 6th both voices move upward to an octave you have hidden octaves as parallel octaves are IMPLIED by this motion in this species. Check in you second counterpoint assignment where you broke this rule.

3) Dissonances are to be APPROACHED by stepwise motion as well as quitted in the same way. Check in your counterpoint assignment error - hint it is where the hidden octave OR fifth is.

Alright, I found some time to do another couple excercises.

Hopefully I did it right. I am not completely sure about what I did in measure 7-8; oblique motion to resolve the dissonance. Also, in the penultimate of the second set, I was not sure if that should be sharp or natural.

Other than that, I think everything is okay. We'll see.

[2nd Species 2].pdf

DC -

Overall looks great. Just avoid melodic leaps of the tritone. In 16th century counterpoint illegal in 2 nd specie. This is easily fixed by flattening the B flat.

Now why don't you try the melodic exercises in quarter notes that i gave in my most recent counterpoint thread.

I promise by the end of June to have the rules for 3rd specie counterpoint up.

mmk.. cool, I should have that up by the end of the week.

Okay, It's been a while.

I finally got around to read up on third species and doing two more exercises.

Hopefully I did these right. I feel like I understood this a little easier than the others....

[3rd Species 3].pdf

I see a couple of dissonances in accented positions (B against F in measure 3, F against G in m.7, Bb against A in m.16, A against Bb in m.17) and a couple of forbidden leaps (upward leap from accented note in m.7, dissonant notes being approached or exited by leap in m.11, 16 and 17). Otherwise it looks fine.

(caveat: my edumacation is based only on Jeppesen; his version of the rules differs from Fux's in some details but I don't know which details)

Thank you for taking a look! Yes, I am using Fux and Salzer/Schachter.

From what I read, dissonances in the 3rd quarter or the measure are allowed, as they act as "ornamental notes", but to do so sparingly. As for the leap from an accented, I saw it in the examples in both Fux and Salzer, but if CO's thread says it's a no-no. I tried to compramise... Though m.7 is a bad measure.

M.17 was me attempting a cambiata, m.16 would only be a leap downward with the dissonant aproached and exited stepwise..

m.11 could be done better (G-F-A-B).. would that G be a fourth or fifth?

Oh well. You may observe that my own mastery of species counterpoint is no quite waterproof. You're right about m. 16 and the cambiata—I didn't remember its being an exception to dissonance handling. Depending on who one is to believe, you may also right about third-note dissonances—Jeppesen says this about dissonances in the third species: (my quick translation)

"On the first and third note only consonance is allowed. Fux adds to this rule the remark that on occasion the third note may be dissonant, but only if the second and fourth are consonant."

He then goes on to question the validity of Fux's addendum... so the two theorists derived slightly different rules from the same music.

But regarding the upward leaps from accented notes: one of Jeppesen's main criticisms of Fux is that sometimes his examples contradict the style being taught. As I recall, he shows a couple of canti firmi given by Fux that move in broken chords. That's why I've never dared read Fux myself.

hmmm, that is interesting. I guess it is a more of a "pick your poison" kind of thing. lol

Thanks