Mozartian Sonata 1st Movement

Hello esteemed musical colleagues.

Here's a first movement of a Mozart-esque piano sonata in a key I can't remember.

It is in standard sonata-allegro form and I have it up to the development so far (the exposition is complete).

Please tell me your thoughts.

First movement so far: mozartsonatastudy2.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

score-pdf: mozartsonatastudy.pdf - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

I really like it! The broken octaves in m7-8 are brilliant. I also think your "homemade ritardando" (forgive me) slows down at a perfect rate. Very, very well done!

Hello esteemed musical colleagues.

Here's a first movement of a Mozart-esque piano sonata in a key I can't remember.

It is in standard sonata-allegro form and I have it up to the development so far (the exposition is complete).

Please tell me your thoughts.

First movement so far: mozartsonatastudy2.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

score-pdf: mozartsonatastudy.pdf - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

This is an interesting approach to composing in the classical style. But I wouldn't call it "Mozart-esque" because there's a lot of essential disparities between your composition and any of Mozart's sonatas.

First of all, there's no second theme in the dominant (which would be E major -

This is an interesting approach to composing in the classical style. But I wouldn't call it "Mozart-esque" because there's a lot of essential disparities between your composition and any of Mozart's sonatas.

First of all, there's no second theme in the dominant (which would be E major -– by the way, why do you say "in a key I can't remember"? The score shows unambiguously A major.). If you understand mm. 13 ff as a second theme, it is not in the dominant but in the tonic A major (like the main theme in the beginning, mm. 1 ff).

Another point is your use of chromatic suspension notes (which is quite generic of Mozart's style). However you've frequently written them enharmonically wrong (see mm. 6, 10, 14, 25, 36 r. h.). Mozart never wrote enharmonics falsely!

Your use of harmonies is often capriciously –– in a rather joyful way, however! Therefore I would call your emerging piano sonata a piece with some classical touch and yet in an already noticeable personal style.

Maybe it's a good idea to study more part writing (taking into account good voice leading) and harmony theory (allowing functional tonality throughout the whole course of a piece).

Anyway, go on in completing your piano "sonata-allegro" as an emphatic composition in the end.

Thank you for your response monsieur.

Indeed you're right that my calling all my pieces "Mozartian" studies and such isn't really serious in the regard that I didn't aim to SPECIFICALLY reproduce Mozart exactly, but rather just the general time period of classical music.

As for the enharmonic writing, you're right it's completely wrong. I mentioned that in my other Mozartian piano trio I posted, it being due to the fact that I couldn't be bothered at the time in writing in enharmonically right since I'm self taught and just don't have the HABIT of doing everything strictly like that (i.e. not having a teacher correct a D# to a Eb). To me, all that is besides the point and insignificant though because in the end a D# is still an Eb. However, you're right this is an area I will consciously aim to improve just to have everything more consistent and professional looking. :D

I must however point out to you one point of error that you made dear sir. Measure 13 as you stated is in fact the FIRST theme, whereas the beginning is just a brief intro. area. The second theme occurs after a very clear tonicization of E major (the dominant tonal area) in measures 24 and 25.

In measure 26 the E major area clearly begins and quickly descends into E major's (the dominant) relative minor C# minor, etc. You will note that in measures 24 and 25 is a clear secondary dominant tonicization of the dominant tonal area for the 2nd half of the exposition.

Thanks for your comments though.

p.s. as for my not remember what key it was, I didn't have the score at the time and I had completely forgotten what key this piece was in because I haven't worked on it in about a month since I started this piece but then began work on the piano trio and devoted my time to that so I will be getting back to this piece soon to finish it.

It's very nice, and I try to compose in this style too. And indeed I'm working on a piano sonata right now as well. It is delightful although the B theme shouldn't be in the tonic. Use the dominant or the subdominant. :D

Two further comments:

As for the enharmonic writing, … To me, all that is besides the point and insignificant though because in the end a D# is still an Eb.

Well, on the piano this might be true (since there's only a single key for D# and Eb). However, for every musician who is able to modulate the tone (in particular, string players), it's false –– he/she might understand D# as a leading tone upwards to E and Eb as a leading tone downwards to D, and, accordingly, diminish the semitone a bit to strengthen the tension to the resolution tone.

I must however point out to you one point of error that you made dear sir. Measure 13 as you stated is in fact the FIRST theme, whereas the beginning is just a brief intro. area. The second theme occurs after a very clear tonicization of E major (the dominant tonal area) in measures 24 and 25.

In measure 26 the E major area clearly begins and quickly descends into E major's (the dominant) relative minor C# minor, etc. You will note that in measures 24 and 25 is a clear secondary dominant tonicization of the dominant tonal area for the 2nd half of the exposition.

After a careful look at mm. 26 ff (after your "tonicization of E major in measures 24 and 25"), in my opinion there's no second theme, only sustained notes without melodic contour and broken chords up and down (in sixteenth motion throughout). Harmonically you are still in the dominant of A major (by heavy use of D instead of the original D# as the leading note in E major, cp. mm. 27, 30, 32, 34, 37, 40, 42). The final measure is decidedly to be heard as a dominant and not, as it would be necessary for a second theme's section, as a tonic. The whole section is nothing but a somewhat too long coda.

Two further comments:

Well, on the piano this might be true (since there's only a single key for D# and Eb). However, for every musician who is able to modulate the tone (in particular, string players), it's false –– he/she might understand D# as a leading tone upwards to E and Eb as a leading tone downwards to D, and, accordingly, diminish the semitone a bit to strengthen the tension to the resolution tone.

After a careful look at mm. 26 ff (after your "tonicization of E major in measures 24 and 25"), in my opinion there's no second theme, only sustained notes without melodic contour and broken chords up and down (in sixteenth motion throughout). Harmonically you are still in the dominant of A major (by heavy use of D instead of the original D# as the leading note in E major, cp. mm. 27, 30, 32, 34, 37, 40, 42). The final measure is decidedly to be heard as a dominant and not, as it would be necessary for a second theme's section, as a tonic. The whole section is nothing but a somewhat too long coda.

While in theory that is true (regarding your first point about enharmonic tones), in practice a string player would never be taught to arbitrarily enhance the sharpness/flatness of a tone. And if they are to do that themselves, it would be viewed as their incorrect playing technique, and thus no concern of my own either way. As musicians we strive for perfection in rendering a composer's work, not applying our own arbitrary additions, that would be improvisation. :toothygrin:

Your opinion on the 2nd theme however, I will agree on. While it does modulate and tonicize the dominant by the book, a more forceful establishment of this dominant (E) is held back by the I7 chord that keeps taking it back to A major (IV). And furthermore, the first minor arpeggiation begins in F# minor which is the relative minor of A major as well.

So all in all these are excellent points you have made and helped me to learn a little more since I have not examined it this deeply on my own up to now and wrote it in a furious spurt. However in the end, I must disagree with your opinion (although a highly learned and persuasive opinion it is) that the end is decidedly in the 'dominant' and not the tonic (E major). But hey, that's what makes it music, we all have our own opinions on how things sound and to me and many others it is indeed the tonic BUT not as STRONGLY emphasized as one would like - that I must agree with. Luckily, it is mostly saved in the end by the last fast phrase before the ritardando, since that phrase is an emphatic V7 (B7 chord) onto E major.

However one last interesting thing you brought up, or at least made me realize, is that the whole CHARACTER of the 2nd theme of the exposition is that of a long drawn out CODA, I suppose I didn't realize that until you said the word "coda." That repeating base note on E gives it one of those winding down, coda feels so at least it lends SOME credence to your opinion that it would make more sense as a coda than a 2nd theme group.

Anyways, thanks for the comments.

While in theory that is true (regarding your first point about enharmonic tones), in practice a string player would never be taught to arbitrarily enhance the sharpness/flatness of a tone. And if they are to do that themselves, it would be viewed as their incorrect playing technique, and thus no concern of my own either way. As musicians we strive for perfection in rendering a composer's work, not applying our own arbitrary additions, that would be improvisation.

Enhancing the sharpness/flatness of a leading tone

Enhancing the sharpness/flatness of a leading tone – and only of a leading tone! – is in no way arbitrary. As said before, it strengthens the tension for subsequent resolution. Ask the masters of chamber music, they will confirm this (if they are confident enough to be truthful about their "incorrect playing technique").

In mm. 39–44 the sequence of harmonies – E, B7, E, E7, A, A7, D, B7, E, B7, E – is functionally insufficient for establishing a tonic of E major, primarily by the use of an E pedal point instead of B; at least in m. 43 you should have used B in the bass line (so that you would have a B64/73 cadence onto E in m. 44). Therefore the whole section is still the dominant of A major and not the tonic E major. Psychologically, this is well established by the fact that you expect continuing with the home key, A major, after the final bar, even for the beginning of the development. If the final bar would be a true tonic E major, the repeat from the beginning would be an experience of "yes, back at home again!" and not of "oh, back from at home?"

I must say your arguments are quite persuasive dear sir and thus your points are well taken. However, even by your own admission the string of harmonies "E, B7, E, E7, A, A7, D, B7, E, B7, E", I would not call that insufficient, in fact out of those 11 chords you listed 3 of them are dominants going into the new tonic of E and and 4 of them are E itself whereas only ONE is of I7 going to IV (E7 to A)...the only problematic thing I see is I probalby shouldn't have did A7 to D (which would be an unconvincing IV7 to VII).

But once again..duly noted, you are quite wise and well versed in the art of Music Theory.

p.s. as for the first thing, I highly doubt any true musicians CONSCIOUSLY/VOLUNTARILY do the thing you proposed, however I would not disbelieve it if it were an unconscious sort of thing...i.e. seeing a D#, they might subconsciously tend to make the leading tone a few CENTS higher than if it were written a Eb, so once again your advice is duly noted.

I must say your arguments are quite persuasive dear sir and thus your points are well taken. However, even by your own admission the string of harmonies "E, B7, E, E7, A, A7, D, B7, E, B7, E", I would not call that insufficient, in fact out of those 11 chords you listed 3 of them are dominants going into the new tonic of E and and 4 of them are E itself whereas only ONE is of I7 going to IV (E7 to A)...the only problematic thing I see is I probalby shouldn't have did A7 to D (which would be an unconvincing IV7 to VII).

Right, 3 of the 5 seventh chords are dominants going to the new tonic of E. But there are 2 seventh chords which obscure this "new tonic", namely, E7 (going to A) and A7 (going to D). Moreover, think about the wrong pedal point of E – only a pedal point of B would here be allowed by all means of functional harmony theory!

And what do you think about the psychology of the listener, expecting, after the final measure of your exposition, the home key?

Right, 3 of the 5 seventh chords are dominants going to the new tonic of E. But there are 2 seventh chords which obscure this "new tonic", namely, E7 (going to A) and A7 (going to D). Moreover, think about the wrong pedal point of E – only a pedal point of B would here be allowed by all means of functional harmony theory!

And what do you think about the psychology of the listener, expecting, after the final measure of your exposition, the home key?

You impress me immeasurably with your knowledge of music theory. We should discuss it over tea sometime! :toothygrin: :toothygrin: :toothygrin:

I would be MOST indebted if a man of your stature were to listen to my "Mozartian" (please understand it's only a name/semantics..it's not really meant to imitate Mozart directly but rather late classical period) piano trio attempt and give your erudite appraisal!

Here is the link: http://www.youngcomposers.com/forum/piano-trio-ab-classical-tonal-18748.html does the treatment of sonata-allegro form in the 1st movement of THAT appease your rigorous musical appetites? Please be sure to listen to it post haste!

Thanks again.

Thank you for your compliments.

Yes, I had a look at your piano trio thread in the meantime. I will give you a short comment there.

Good job, i would rather call it a Sonatine, it sounds very classical and very nice :)

there's too much going on so soon. try and build up to things little by little. mozart caters to his listeners by helping them listen.. everything you wrote is mozartian but it's missing the love and the passion. there is NO love and NO passion whatsoever. as a study it's pretty good, but as a piece it's not emotionally valuable at all.