Galvenized Suite (a Symphonic Tone Poem)

Regarding the horns: I have several French Horn playing acquaintances, and they all asure me that the typical horn player can reach a High D above the staff. Though exceeding this note is possible, it is not very easy or pleasant in any right. You will see in my later movements that the Horn part is scored much lower than the first, but in no time do I ever exceed the suggested range.

Keep the comments coming. I love defending my work!

Sean Christopher Stork

Nightengale Incorporated

Oh yes, high D is POSSIBLE (if a rather poor, thin, fluffy note - even top C for solos isn't THAT good and can't get above mf) but think of the player on the night and nerves. Horn solos are usually exposed as yours is and you're free-blowing at that range. To hit that top one in concert will take a load of courage and a few beers or equivalent.

Someone showing it can be done in your lounge and hitting it clean on the night of a concert are, uh different.

Up to you, of course, but don't be surprised to find the player simply not playing it. If your aim is the Boston S O or an orchestra of that ilk you're all right, but if you want a run through by a good local outfit, you may hit trouble. Find a player with the high-F tubes (they came popular to play Handel's parts) - they might do it.

M

Well I ran through this really quickly and have a few things to say and not really the time to do so. This is just one thing I would like to suggest. In the Iron part I think the effect would be better attained if you used a bassoon or an oboe instead of a flute. The flute sounds too happy and therefore to much of a contrast between what is, I think, supposed to be really eerie and swarmy sounding bass strings. I would defintely prefer this melody to be more dry and mechanical sound through a really nasal instrument instead of a hollow sounding flute.

Ah ha! Good point. Ofcourse, I utilize the oboe later on for the same kind of feeling you were suggesting. I'll play around with the color and see what I prefer.

Sean Christopher Stork

Nightengale Incorporated

Keep in mind though, that the flute player can more than likely make it sound eerie. Anyone ever heard the piece "Tempered Steel" for wind ensemble? There is a very eerie flute solo in it. I definetely think the flute would work well there. I especially like how you later use the oboe, it adds even more to the eerie feel.

I agree about a bassoon though... That would sound very eerie there. But the flute, in my opinion, would work fine. ^^

Also, I do believe your oboe is out of range... it gets way low.

Maybe english horn? ^^

Too low for oboe? Really? How low can they go, anyway? The finale kind of makes it sound like an English Horn anyway, but I don't use one for the entire piece. Seems kind of foolish to switch for that one solo. Maybe just have the oboist switch horns there.

EDIT: Added note to Oboe line before the solo "Switch to English Horn". I am, of course, assuming that the oboist in question will own and know how to play an English Horn. If not, I may be forced to add cues to possibly the 1st Bassoon or Viola. Any suggestions?

Many ensemble-playing oboists also possess a Cor Anglais - same fingering as the oboe (as near as damnit) but it sounds a 5th lower than written. And only goes down to E (played as B on the oboe - it does not have the equivalent of a Bb key).

(It's remotely possible that Cor Angs have been built with an Eb 'bell' but it's rarer than flutes with the Bb foot.) The oboe is the most unstandard of all the woodwinds. Oboists tend to have keys fitted for particular reasons, like unusual trills.

If you intend the player to go above high G, best to study what happens - the notes are hopelessly weak and different oboes (even with the same reed) will play differently. For reasons I don't understand, high notes (above c#) are difficult to produce on some student oboes. )

It's also very difficult to play the bottom B/Bb quietly (and the E on the Cor Anglais)

M

You see? This is exactly why I have a hard time writing for woodwinds. Isn't Cor Anglais Italian for English Horn? The review I read stated that English Horns can play from E below middle C and up to a C two octaves above Middle C. Would I have to retranspose a line by changing it to English Horn? Would switching it to English Horn solve any problems at all? That's what I need to know.

Sean Christopher Stork

Nightengale Incorporated

Isn't Cor Anglais Italian for English Horn?[/b]

Yes, but it's a misnomer really.

The review I read stated that English Horns can play from E below middle C and up to a C two octaves above Middle C.[/b]

That's about it but those very top notes are hopeless. Treat high A/Bb as the end of the useful range (written as E/F a 5th above).

Would I have to retranspose a line by changing it to English Horn? Would switching it to English Horn solve any problems at all? That's what I need to know.

Yes, transpose the part up a fifth (like horns in F). The CA player sees and plays middle-C and it sounds F below.

The CA doesn't sound exactly like an (average?!) oboe and articulates slightly differently so don't expect them to sound homogenous (spelling?). Having said that, composers use the CA to play mellower deeper notes, like middle C/B/Bb which are coarser on the oboe.

A brief switch would be okay but would it be possible to give the player a longer run, then you have less worry about the difference in timbre and the player moaning about changing over just for a bar or two?

Incidentally, the nature of producing sound on both instruments means that a lungful of air goes a long way but both are tiring so give them plenty of rests!

Good luck.

Well, it's not merely a bar or two, I consider it to be a rather important solo. I'm thinking about taking it out of the Double Reeds entirely, as it seems nearly impossible to get the desired tone from them. Also, the solo reaches from a low Gb3 to a high Abb5 just above the staff (in C) am I in trouble here? From what you're saying, an English Horn should be able to play those notes.

Sean Christopher Stork

Nightengale Incorporated

No, the CA can reach around Bb 4 (sounded). I'm not sure if we're in the same register with this numbering - the sounding range of the CA is E below middle C up to about A/B, one ledger above the treble stave.

This solo sounds like a case for clarinet which could manage your range with some latitude.

You would certainly have problems getting a uniform tone with the CA and oboe, given the range you're looking at.

M

In general music C4 is middle C. I don't know if I'd like the sound near as much if I used a clarinet here. I was even thinking of changing the first solo, as to someone's advice. I feel it is necessary to be a double reed here. Perhaps I'll tinker with it a bit more. There might be a way to turn this into a duet between CA and Oboe. I'll look into it. Any other comments?

Sean Christopher Stork

Nightengale Incorporated

I think a clarinet would suit fine for that tone, or a bass clarinet. You could make a duet with the oboe and clarinet, as well. If the clarinet player can play fairly strongly in the lower register, then the sound should be able to come out fairly dark and eerie.

What kind of tone are you trying to achieve?

It's supposed to sound very Arabic at that point. It represents Christ's prayers at Gethsemane. Therefore, I think it would be best suited by a Shaum, or an Oboe.

Sean Christopher Stork

Nightengale Incorporated

Impressive work! I've only listened to the first two movements though. I liked the introduction on the second movement, and I defiantly wasn't excepting that galloping section. I was excepting adagio throughout! (Should have known from the description of the movement, huh?)

I'll listen to the last two when I have time. Can't wait for movment 4!

Alright, I finally listened to the other movements, they were all quite nice but I did think Silver and Iron were best out of the last 3 movements. So I will comment on them only because I've nearly forgotten all of Gold (sorry).

Movement II-Silver-: First off, the string passage in the beginning was quite nice and well done to make the "somber" attitude of the piece. When the gallop started I was quite humoured, it had some very interesting elements witheld in it. The return to the "somber" motif was a nice end especially with the brass choir at the end; it rather reminded me of the beginning to the second movement to Dvorak's "From the New World" (No. 9) symphony. Again, a nice job in orchestration etc. but it seemed to lack any purpose. I don't feel that it had been inspired as much as say the first and last movement but it fits alright into your suite.

Movement IV-Iron-: Though I have strayed quite drastically from God and therefore Christ, I still am very interested in both; so I too enjoyed this piece. The beginning was very atmospheric, sounding quite Hebrew if not middle eastern (although that isn't too relavent to the story of Christ). As the piece continued it grew even more interesting; I imagined with the march like section that was the coming of the Romans to the Garden and taking Christ to Pilot or something of the like. Then with the rather slow section which sounded more like plodding I imagined Christ taking His cross up onto the mountain, and the tube bells the servants driving the nail into His hands, the tremello in the strings sounded like the earthquake in my opinion. Then with the major part His resurection but that's just how I interpreted it.

Nice job, I'd blab more but I have to go.

The beginning was very atmospheric, sounding quite Hebrew if not middle eastern (although that isn't too relavent to the story of Christ).

Actually, Christ was born and spent much of his life in what is now modern day Middle East. The arabic sections were intentional due to this. As for the rest of the synopse, you were pretty correct for the most part. The very beginning actually reflects his ride into Jerusalem, the tremolo/oboe solo section is symbollic of Jesus' prayer in Gethsemane, and the section following it was based on his arrest and trials. The repeated material is based on his ascent up to Galgotha, and the final three chimes represent the hour of 3, when Jesus supposedly died on the cross. The major theme is bases on a church hymn and was very much supposed to represent his ressurection, but more importantly, his divine love, as Christ rose victorious from the grave.

Thank you for your comments, though. Very insightful.

First movement-Everything after 3 minutes was fine. Everything before it made me sad. You were way tooooooooo repetitive. I got so bored listening to it I had to force myself not to just skip ahead. A lot of times your phrasings were awkward and didn't seem to fit. The way you arranged your instruments were a bit odd and could have been done better. The big problem is that nothing changed. Throughout the whole piece, the mood was static. It was like listening to a mortal combat but longer and slightly different.

Second Movement-Lovely strings. I think it works well for Silver. Your Brass needs to be edited. Brass should play closer. I think you spaced them out a bit. You ruined it for me once you brought in the other instruments. I was hoping this would be a bit more relax because of your string introduction. I felt better when you went back to the beauty but then you keep switching to that comical phrase that you used. It sticks out like a sore thumb. It has no real place. I couldn't figure out why you had it in there. What were you trying to do with it? I've been thinking about this for a logn time now and I have concluded you failed at doing whatever you wanted to do with that phrase. At the very least though, it wasn't static for that one part. Again, I would like to point out that your ending brass is awkward.

Third Movement-Wow, NOW THIS IS HOW YOUR OTHER MOVEMENTS SHOULD COME OUT AS. If you wrote them all this well, this suite would amazng. This is my favorite movement and I have to say it is brilliant. It is beautiful. However, why is it short? It is a shame. I applaud you, nothing negative to say here.

Fourth Movement-Good work here. These last two movements you've been doing it right. It was a great way to end a suite. I actually thought I would like the suite as a whole but the first and second movement really don't allow me to do so.

The beginning, it seemed to forceful and the dissonence was a bit much.

I disagree - that dissonance was really nice! I swear, the more I read this forum, the more I think everyone is stuck composing in the 19th century!

I disagree - that dissonance was really nice! I swear, the more I read this forum, the more I think everyone is stuck composing in the 19th century!

You're not to far off.

Also, in your Iron movement - your notation is very confusing and unnecessary in the third measure (with the solo flute) and in the 49th (I think) measure with the solo oboe. You should definitely use feathered beaming right there. The performer is going to assume you actually meant it, and is going to try to perform it like that, when all I think you wanted was a written accel. I think Finale has a plugin for that.

You're not to far off.

So yes, everyone here is composing in the 19th century?

So yes, everyone here is composing in the 19th century?

Not everyone. Nico finally moved past that. I've been past that and there are a few others.

So are you saying my piece is or is not in the 19th century? 19th I don't so much as the 18th century. I doubt anyone would label me a strict "Enlightenment Era" composer. Still, I have always been influenced by Romantic composers such as Rossini, Verdi, Vaughan Williams, Dvorak, and others. So I guess I'm more of a late Romantic/Modernistic composer. I don't think I'm writing much out of the 21st century! I'm just laying down the groundwork, hoping others will follow!