March for concert band - now with score

Hello everyone, I'm a young composer who has just started copmposing his own music, and I wanted to know how I could get better, or if I was any good at all, and thought this site would be great for finding all this out.

This is my first completed piece, and since I'm horrible at making up names I just named it march. It's for a concert band, but I've only written it out for twelve members here, discluding the uncommon march instruments such as bassoon, english horn, alto clarinet and other large or rare instruments.

My song starts out out with woodwinds having a pick-up and then everyone else charging in on the second beat. The trumpets take the melody and lead into a tuba solo, so as you notice, the intro really is extremely short, one thing I would change if I redid it.

After the tuba three bar solo, and others mimicking it, the trumpets take the main melody that appears throughout the song, and everything is quite loud. The trombones then get more or less the same melody (though I can't get it any louder, sorry) which the trumpets get back again.

In the middle we have a woodwind section, with the baritone appearing in a duet with a tenor saxophone. I chose those two because they usually have the melody in the marches we play in my local band. Something goes wrong with the whole notes here, but I can't for the life of me figure out what. If you could, that would be awesome.

We then repeat the intro and lead into a four bar repeated section where everyone plays something different. This is followed by two harmonies, one by woodinds and trumpet, and the other by low brass, with the baritone having a solo, echoed by the tenor sax. Once again it's hard to hear, but it sounds horrible when I put everyone elses volume down, so I decided this way was better.

Finally, the woodwinds and trumpet take the baritone solo, and the low brass echoes it, and then they switch leading to the ending.

I hope I'm doing all this right. I couldn't use primoPDF because my computer isn't new enough, so I have to give you the finale score which I'm afraid is printmusic 2009, so some of you won't be able to open it, but alas; it's the best I can do.

March MP3 file 85.3 KB - March.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

March MUS file (for finale) 2.0MB - March.mus - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

PDF score - http://www.box.net/shared/nlpv8hvb1o

impresario

First off welcome to YC. You have come to the right place to begin your trip into composing.

For a first piece, this is pretty good. I can't see the score, so I won't say anything about it.

I see you have commented on at least one piece already. That's the best way to get noticed here. The more music you comment on, the more chances you will get that they will return the favor.

The only thing I will say about the music and without a score I might be wrobng, but it sounds like you have some of the wind players going a long time without a breath. Be very careful of that.

Ron

I'll check it out. Remembering it, I think you're correct, though the longer notes allow for breath space.

Thanks for the comment and welcome, and sorry I can't get the score to be PDF.

Jonah

You are asking the wrong person when it comes to band music.

I know next to nothing about it.

Since you posted a score, I will give you a few things of what I see.

First off, and this is very important, what is the tempo? It has to be on the score. In orchestral pieces, most composers very the tempo from time to time. I assume that is the same with band music.

Next off, I kind of doubt that you want every single note by every player to be tongued, so get some slurs in there to indicate where notes should be played legato.

I can see you have done some copy and pasting. That by itself is not bad, But when you do it, make sure that you fix any notes. For example, in measure 16, in the flute, that should be a half note, not tied quarters.

Just for making a score pretty, dynamic markings should not be touching anything else.

Lastly, keep on commenting in other's posts. Sooner or later someone will return the favor.

Hope that helps some.

Ron

Thankyou Ron, I'll be sure to check over my scores for things like those from now on before posting.

And the speed is 120. (quarter note)

1. bells don't trill. I don't know if you meant a roll or if you actually want two notes to be alternated between rapidly, but trill is rarely seen in percussion music.

2. You use ffff, fff, ff, f, and mf all at once - I know you want meticulous balance, but cut it down to maybe two dynamics (a loud and a soft) and trust the ensemble to balance sections.

3. Your opening 2 measures (not counting the anacrusis), harmonically, sounds like a jumbled mess. There's not discernable melody, it just sounds like a bunch of notes from a particular scale being played haphazardly all over the place.

4. The notes for the cymbals should probably be on the staff, especially since the entire staff is "cymbals" and not "percussion." You also need to specify what kind of cymbals you want to use - there are individual notes, which suggests crash cymbals, and also tied/rolled notes, which suggest suspended. Ideally, each section of notes between rests will be labeled not only with what type of cymbal (suspended, crash, china), but also what type of mallet to strike it with (if it is suspended cymbals) - soft yarn, stick, hard rubber, etc.

That's all I see from a first look. A decent attempt, but you need to write about 20 more pieces like this one, knowing that they will be practice attempts, before you try for something you can actually play/publish.

There's some good stuff here but there's also some stuff to be touched up.

1. What type of skill level are you intending for this piece. Most band scores include 2 or clarinet parts, bass clarinets, baritone saxes, 2 or 3 trumpet parts, 2 to 4 horn parts, and 2 to 3 trombone parts. Now pieces for younger groups usually don't split the parts as much as the upper level things. If it's a lower level ensemble then I would look at some things in the range of the horn and trumpet.

2. Do you really want a baritone or do you want a euphonium? Unless you want baritone for some sort of solo passage you need to go with euphonium. No one plays baritones (except for marching band maybe). Switch it unless you actually want the baritone sound and you know the ensemble you intend it for actually has baritones. Nothing is more annoying for a euphonium player than getting a new piece of music that has a baritone part when they really mean euphonium. They are not the same thing.

3. I'm assuming you mean orchestra bells on bells part. I'm pretty positive they can do trills but probably not as excessively as you'd want. Also the have a decay that you have to watch out for. Be aware that passages with a lot of notes will blur. If you don't want that sound than switch to another mallet instrument.

4. Generally you group four four bars into one beat groupings, rather than the two beat grouping you have. Also connecting eighth notes over rests is confusing to the performer.

5. Besides all of the above clean up your score some.

1. bells don't trill.

Yes, as you said I was trying to immitate the rapid change of notes. I didn't know trilling wasn't for bells.

2. You use ffff, fff, ff, f, and mf all at once - I know you want meticulous balance, but cut it down to maybe two dynamics (a loud and a soft) and trust the ensemble to balance sections.

That's mostly due to the computer, and it not letting soloists be loud enough.

3. Your opening 2 measures (not counting the anacrusis), harmonically, sounds like a jumbled mess. There's not discernable melody, it just sounds like a bunch of notes from a particular scale being played haphazardly all over the place.

Yes, I agree. I just hear the main stuff so it sounds good, but seperately it doesn't.

4. The notes for the cymbals should probably be on the staff, especially since the entire staff is "cymbals" and not "percussion." You also need to specify what kind of cymbals you want to use - there are individual notes, which suggests crash cymbals, and also tied/rolled notes, which suggest suspended. Ideally, each section of notes between rests will be labeled not only with what type of cymbal (suspended, crash, china), but also what type of mallet to strike it with (if it is suspended cymbals) - soft yarn, stick, hard rubber, etc.

That's all I see from a first look. A decent attempt, but you need to write about 20 more pieces like this one, knowing that they will be practice attempts, before you try for something you can actually play/publish.

So most of this is stuff that I needed to do to hear properly in finale, so when I make a pdf, I'll be sure to make it like a score instead of leaving it. Thanks for commenting!

There's some good stuff here but there's also some stuff to be touched up.

1. What type of skill level are you intending for this piece. Most band scores include 2 or clarinet parts, bass clarinets, baritone saxes, 2 or 3 trumpet parts, 2 to 4 horn parts, and 2 to 3 trombone parts. Now pieces for younger groups usually don't split the parts as much as the upper level things. If it's a lower level ensemble then I would look at some things in the range of the horn and trumpet.

This was my first piece, I just chose a few instruments, not worrying about who would play it. Apparenty the horns are extremely high for begginers.

2. Do you really want a baritone or do you want a euphonium? Unless you want baritone for some sort of solo passage you need to go with euphonium. No one plays baritones (except for marching band maybe). Switch it unless you actually want the baritone sound and you know the ensemble you intend it for actually has baritones. Nothing is more annoying for a euphonium player than getting a new piece of music that has a baritone part when they really mean euphonium. They are not the same thing.

My band has Baritone's, so I just used that.

3. I'm assuming you mean orchestra bells on bells part. I'm pretty positive they can do trills but probably not as excessively as you'd want. Also the have a decay that you have to watch out for. Be aware that passages with a lot of notes will blur. If you don't want that sound than switch to another mallet instrument.

I just discovreed the insturment list and switching to different mallets :] I'll do this.

4. Generally you group four four bars into one beat groupings, rather than the two beat grouping you have. Also connecting eighth notes over rests is confusing to the performer.

5. Besides all of the above clean up your score some.

I don't quite understand the first part of four, but yes, I'll keep all this in mind and make nice scores now.

Sorry I was talking about the time signature when I said four four. Also it's very unusual that you have baritones, but in general for the future bands almost exclusively use euphoniums. Your band is one of the exceptions.

That's mostly due to the computer, and it not letting soloists be loud enough.

Just a side note, why the heck are you letting the computer decide what playback will be? Playback on computer is an error checker at best. Kinda like spell-check. The computer will NEVER sound like real life. Get out of that habit of thinking the computer will sound realisitc, because it doesn't, even with sample sounds.

Yes, which is why from now on, I'll be listening to it with overdramatic dynamics, but I'll edit the dynamics when posting the score.

OMG. :headwall:

A very amateur piece. I suppose you're a beginner so it's not a problem.

A few things:

- Too much unison parts.

- No divisi parts

- One french horn part (I'm crying), one part from each instrument --> you should read about how a marching band builds up.

Anyway a nice try. Keep on composing and you'll get better I believe it! ;)

And for the ffffffff and ffff problem. There's a magic spell that very few person know only. It's an arch knowledge of music that very few posses. For centuries the composers kept the secret among them and only used in danger. They hid it in a secret place where mortal person cant reach it. The secret has been lost. Until know. Hmm...Maybe I can tell you. If you want to your piece sound more louder just take your magic wand and say

"VOLUME UP" (or turn up your loud speakers volume with your bare hand if you dont own magic skillz) It will help believe me. :laugh:

lol Norby! He was having balance problems, not overall volume issues.

Impresario - welcome to YC, stick around, we'll help. I went a similar route as you when I first started - I wrote 7 Rhapsodies for Band, so I can relate. People are really bashing you "OMG, such an amateur piece!!", but don't let that bother you. You just started, so you have a lot to learn. Most of what you'll learn won't be from comments on your music by other people, but your own experience. As we say, if you write crappy music, keep writing crappy music. The worst thing to happen is to get discouraged - your music will get better with time.

What can help is if you search out the scores to music you like. Maybe your band played something that you really liked - ask the director for a copy of the score. Look at what the composer/arranger did with all the instruments. You analysed this march of yours fairly well - just do it with other composers' music as well to learn how their music works.

Something that strikes me odd in your march here is all the parallel and unison lines, and lack of accompaniment. It's okay from time to time to have more than one instrument play the same thing at the same time, but more often you might want to harmonise your melody and/or provide an accompanimental background. Since it's a march, we'd except to hear "Ooom pahs" with a melody over top. You know what I mean? You need more accompaniment.

About the baritone-euphonium things - relax, people. They're essentially the same instrument as far as a beginner is concerned. I've been to festivals where euphoniums and concert baritones were mixed in the same section - because it's not always a big deal. They're equally capable of playing the same part, despite being slightly different instruments.

Also, on the subject of instruments, impresario, check out [[Category:Instruments]]. That will get you up a leg or two on understanding all the instruments you are using.

So anyways, just keep writing, and don't stop. :thumbsup:

About the baritone-euphonium things - relax, people. They're essentially the same instrument as far as a beginner is concerned. I've been to festivals where euphoniums and concert baritones were mixed in the same section - because it's not always a big deal. They're equally capable of playing the same part, despite being slightly different instruments.

Quoted for truth. They don't even sound THAT much different (a little, but not enough to make a humongous fuss about), so I wouldn't care if it says "baritone" or "euphonium"; they can both play the same music and produce a similar effect.

Alas, but the more we talk about them, the more there is to dispute. So that's why I shut up and left it at that. :innocent:

Indeed =)

As far as the piece, though, James' advice is sound. For a march, you are lacking much accompaniment. Granted, every march doesn't have to have the "oom pah oom pah" bass/horn rhythm, but marches generally are considerably more bouncy than your piece. A lot of the time there is only one thing going on (a single melody, for instance) with no accompaniment/countermelody/bass of any kind. It sounds more like an extended fanfare than a march.

Overall though, if this is your first or one of your first pieces, it is pretty good. My first piece was absolutely terrible, and I'd rather not share it =) Keep it up, and like James said, study band scores. Listen to pieces you like and figure out what it is you like, and learn to adapt that. Good luck as you continue composing!

He was having balancing problems. Yes. But I had the same problems of him with both GPO and EWQL. If you just turn on the instruments sound all of them it will be hot spots in regording and it will be disrtorted in loud passages. You can solve this problem if you turn up your speaker's master volume. In this way you dont have to use 600 ff just mf mp fore example and the sound quality remain good.;)

For Tokkemon: It's a very stupid idea that the computer wont sound realistic. If you use EWQL properly and you take care of the vol balance and everything it'll sounds like when a real orchestra playing. Someone can make his piece so realistic that you cant tell from the real one believe me.

Thankyou to all that commented, especially James. I'm here to reply/explain a few things. First, the sound issue:

Even with the Baritone at FFFF (I didn't even know that existed before finale!) you can't here it against the background of every other instrument, no matter how loud or soft the volume is, as turning up the volume ensures that the whole piece gets the same loudness louder (not grammatically correct, but figure it out XP)

Second, the instrumentation. Besides the Bass Clarinet, this set up is the one of my band, which is why I don't have Bassoon, Bari Sax, Alto Clarinet etc. Also, I don't have seconds and thirds mostly due to the fact that I haven't figured out harmony, and so they would be more or less the exact same.

So as James stated, yes I do have mostly only unison lines, that's because I still have yet to learn all this other stuff. I'll attempt to not make so many things the same in the future, but I can't promise anything besides small progress.

Again, thanks for commenting, I'll keep your responses in mind.

That's what we're talking about "even with the baritone at FFFF you still can't hear it over everything else" then simply make everything else quieter. Set your playback settings for all of your dynamics a little lower and just put a louder one on ONLY the baritone and hide it show it doesn't show up, but overrides the visible one on the score. Maybe the flutes and ect. will be too quiet to here by this point (so just turn your speaker/headphone volume up), but if you're careful you should be able to balance everything out evenly so that you don't have to make certain parts disproportionately loud to compensate for the patch's inherent lack of ooomph.